> 6o M I N U T E S OF E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E T HE Mr G Gardiner 7808. So that there was this test at least of the value, that to the extent of * _____ 8 1. 14 s. rent had been actually paid over and above his present rent.— He • 28 March 1838. might have been charged that; but he had but a very small holding before the lease expired, and then he got an increase and got this holding. 7809. He came up in Mr. White's interest?— He came up m 1835, after getting the new lease ; he was then rejected. 7810. When did the first appear?— In 1835. 7811. Mr. Lefroy.] That was upon the same lease?— Yes. 7812. And then he was rejected?— Yes. 7813. Mr. O'Connell.] Will you state the nature of his evidence in 1835 ?— He produced the very same lease at the same rent, 20 acres 15 perches, rent 16/. 19 s. 6 d. Mr. Robinson was then sworn and examined, being well acquainted with the townland. 7814. Mr. O'Connell.] Did he produce any second witness in 1835?— No, he did not produce a witness on his behalf; Mr. Robinson was produced, and said that he considered it very high at 35 s. per acre. 7815. What did Mr. Robinson say in 1836'— He said in 1836 that there was no land in that town worth 40 s. 7816. Mr. Robinson is an old man ?— He is. 7817. Agent to Lady Ross ?— Yes. 7818. He is not a very brilliant man; he is rather heavy, is he not:— He is active enough in his situation. 7819. Is not he apparently a stupid man ?— I do not conceive that. 7820. He is a strong party man ?— No, he is not. 7821. Do you state that?— He is considered by all classes to be as fair an agent as ever conducted the business. 7822. Not a party man; not disposed to the Orange party ?— I dare say he is well disposed to the Conservative party. 7823. You mean the Orange party ?— I do not conceive there is any such thing as an Orange party at all. 7824. Not in Ireland?— No, I think they are done away with. 7825. Is there no such thing in Ireland now as an Orange party?— I think they have voluntarily submitted to the law relative to the dissolution of that party. 7826. You, who are the superintendent of a school, state that there is no such thing as an Orange party in Ireland ?— Not legally. 7827. In point of fact is there ?— I know the principles of Orangeism remain in members that were belonging to it, the same as they always did. 7828. Were you one of those ?— I was. 7829. A sworn Orangeman ?— I took a voluntary test. 7830. Did you take an oath ?— No ; a declaration. 7831. Was the name of God invoked in taking that declaration ?— It was. 7832. You did not kiss a book ?•— No. 7833. And, therefore, you think it was not an oath ?— I think a declaration amounts to the same effect; I would consider myself as solemnly pledged to act by it. 7834. Mr. Lefroy.] Do not you consider yourself in giving evidence before this Committee under as solemn an obligation to speak the truth as if you took an oath ?— I do. 7835. Mr. O" Connell.] What lodge did you belong to?— I believe it was No. 1595. 7836. Where was it held?— It was held convenient to Ballymahon; in a house less than a mile from Ballymahon. 7837. In whose house was it held?— A man of the name of Amuty. 7838. Who was your master ?— We had different masters every year. 7839. Who was the grand master of the county ?— Mr. Galbraith, part of the time. 7840. Who after him; was this Robinson one of them ?— Never. 7841. Do you mean to say, there are 110 Orange lodges in that county now? — The same party of men reside in the same county, but I do not know that Orange lodges are upheld or carried on now. 7842. Do you say that there are no Orange lodges in the county now?— Not to my knowledge. 7843. Do