SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. > 2.5 it. There is a farm of 30 acres upon the Ballinamuck estate, which is Lord T. Conrtenay, Esq Lorton's, and his lordship was anxious to get upon his estate some northern — persons who understood the growing of flax and manufacture of linen and spinning, March 1838. and the working of looms and all that. I placed a man there named Brock, who was the first Protestant put upon the estate with a view to encourage the people and show them a different system of agriculture, and to be of use to them; but however they would not let him stay amongst them, for he was just one month in the place, and they murdered him upon his own farm; and therefore the improve- ment ceased. 7271. Mr. O'Connell.] Had other persons been put out of the farm?— Persons had been put out. 7272. How many ?— Two or three or four off that holding. 7273. Two or three or four families?— Yes, off that holding; I think there were 36 acres of it. 7274. How many persons do you think were put off?— They were not put off by ejectment, they were purchased ; the interest they seemed to have in it was purchased ; they were paid from 5 to 10 or 15, and sometimes between 15 /. and 20 I. going away to take them to America. 7275. Chairman.] That was an experiment made by Lord Lorton, for the pur- pose of improving the property ?— For improving the property, and improving the condition of the people. 7276. In fact, improving the property would have had a tendency to improve the condition of the people?— It would. 7277. And that experiment, although based upon the principle of having bought their existing interests, was put an end to by the murder of the individual ? — It was. 7278. Mr. O'Connell.] How long since was that?— That was in the year 1835. Brock was murdered upon the 24th of June ; he went there in the second week of May. He was a perfectly unoffending, harmless man ; and the man that succeeded him was twice attacked in going to his house, and stabbed, and beaten in a most barbarous manner, within the last month or six weeks. 7279. Chairman.] Were Mr. Brock's murderers ever apprehended ?— Two of them were tried for it at the Longford assizes j one of them was tried twice; the jury did not agree upon their verdict. 7280. Were either of those men the individuals dispossessed?— One was the son of the man that was purchased out. 7281. Mr. O'Connell.] Is that the case that was before Parliament?— I am not aware that it was. 7282. Did the men consent to transportation for life ?— No. 7283. Were both of them acquitted ?— They were both acquitted. 7284. Chairman.] Was the father of that individual remunerated by money for the residue of his lease ?— It was not a lease ; the lease had expired ; it was money bestowed to them. Lord Lorton had a right, as they were tenants at will, to give them notice to quit, and turn them out. 7285. But instead of availing himself of that right, he gave this man money? — He gave them all money ; every head of a family that he found it necessary to get out; he gave them a certain sum of money, with which they appeared quite satisfied. 7286. Mr. O'Connell Did he do that in all the other instances that you have spoken of?— In every instance where Lord Lorton has tried the experiment ot improving his property, he has paid them for going away. 7287. In all the instances of which you have spoken of clearing the land of Roman- catholics, did he give them money to go ?— In no instance did he make a clearance of Roman- catholics, as I said before; but whenever a Roman- catholic was got rid of he has been paid by Lord Lorton. 7288. Chairman.] Does the same observation apply to Mr. Lefroy's substitutions of tenants ?— It does. 7289. Mr. Lefroy has in all cases, when he has substituted Protestant tenants for Roman- catholics, given a benevolence to the parties so dispossessed ?— He has paid the parties going out. 7290. Had he a legal right to turn them out without any remuneration what- ever ?— A perfectly legal right; they had no title whatever in the land. 643. F 4 7291. Consequently