I > \ 38 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE T. Courtenay, Esq. uPon other, but left to his own free choice, as he would be in the case of a secret ' ballot; whom would he vote for, in your opinion, in that case?— If the landlord went, 27 March 1838. and said, I do not care how you vote, you may vote as you like, you may just do as you like; and if, on he other hand, any other influence that might be brought to bear upon him was put out of the case, and he was told, I have no claim upon you, you may vote as you like, I think it is very likely he would see if he could get a bargain made for his vote, and he would vote for the man that would do most for him. 7252. Is there any bribery in the county of Longford?— I have heard of bribery. 7253. Suppose there was no bribery, and that he was to vote from his own free will and choice ?— I think he would be perfectly indifferent as to it if both parties told him he might do as he liked ; that he would hardly take the trouble to go, unless he could have something for it in return. 7254. That is your estimate ?— That is mv opinion, but party spirit runs very high with us, and they are never let alone in that way. 7255. In some of the estates, have not Roman- catholic tenants been turned out ?— I am not aware of any instance of a Roman- catholic freeholder or lease- holder, that is a voter, being dispossessed. 7256. He has a tenure, and cannot be dispossessed ?— He has a tenure. 7257. But are there not Roman- catholics who have not that tenure, and who have been turned out?— There have been such things. 7258. Upon what estates have you known those things happen of dispossessing Roman- catholic tenants and bringing in Protestants ?— I have known it upon Lord Lorton's estate, but in this way : at the expiration of a lease of a townland, it was found to be covered with paupers; a great many more upon it than were originally there at the making of the lease ; they were turned out because the land was over- peopled; it was not fit to bear the population brought in upon it by the original tenants ; the paupers were turned out, and there was a selection made of the better class of Roman- catholics, and they were left on the ground, and their farms were enlarged. 7259. Do you mean to say that you know no instances, but instances of that kind, upon Lord Lorton's estate ; no instances of the preference of Protestant tenants putting out the Roman- catholics ?— Protestants have been put in on the lands which those paupers had been turned from, but not to the entire exclusion of Roman- catholics ; I am not aware of any instance of it. 7260. Have there not been instances upon the Lorton estate of putting out Roman- catholic tenants, not as paupers, and of substituting by preference Pro- testant tenants ?— No; where a man has been found to behave himself, and to be a proper tenant, I am not aware of any instance where he has been put out to substitute a Protestant. 7261. Though a solvent tenant, have you known instances of his being put out in order to substitute a Protestant ?— Not to the exclusion of other Roman- catholics. 7262. But to the exclusion of some, and the question not referring to paupers ? — To the exclusion of some, but I would not call them solvent or responsible tenants. 7263. Have you known that preference upon any other estates?— I have known Roman- catholics to be turned off another estate. 7264. And Protestant tenants brought in in preference ?— And the land given to Protestant tenants. 7265. What estate do you allude to ?— Mr. Lefroy's estate, near Longford ; but not to the exclusion of Roman- catholics, for there are Roman- catholics upon it, and Mr. Lefroy's directions were to let them remain. 7266. Have you ever known that occur upon Lady Ross's estate ?— Not upon the part of it that I manage ; on the contrary, there were two leases fell in the other day, and I re- let the farms to Roman- catholic occupiers. 7267. Upon the other part of the estate, do you know whether that has occurred ?— I do not manage the other estate. 7268. Who does ?— Mr. Robinson. 7269. Is he a barrister ?— He was at the bar, I believe, in his younger days. 7270. Chairman.] In those cases where a Protestant tenantry has been substi- tuted for the former Roman- catholic tenantry, without reference to political considerations, has the property benefited or not by that change ?— Very much so : I was going to mention an instance, and I think it is right that I should state it