SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. 37 7231. Do you conceive tliat the proportion of tenants who voted under intimi- dation for their landlords was anything like the proportion of those that were prevented voting according to their own wishes, by this sort of intimidation you have last alluded to?— I am sure it was not. 7232. Do you believe that, in point of fact, any considerable number of persons voted under intimidation from their landlords ?— No. 7233. In short, do you conceive that, in order to give the tenants, the Roman- catholic tenants particularly, a fair opportunity of voting according to their own wishes, it was absolutely necessary to give them an ostensible ground, by a menace from the landlord, as an excuse for their so voting ?— It was requisite. 7234. To save them from persecution on the other side ?— Yes, and I think they were glad of having the excuse, where they could state it, that the landlord required them to vote ; they feel themselves that the landlord has the first claim. 7235. That is their natural feeling?— That is the natural feeling of the Irish freeholders and Roman- catholic tenants, as far as my judgment goes, that if left to themselves they would support the landlord in preference, no matter what side his politics may be. 7236. Then, before any influence was exerted on the part of the landlords, a violent counter- influence had been exerted on the other side?— Very much so ; speeches were delivered at the cross- roads, in different districts of the county ; people were gathered, and told how they should vote, under certain pains and penalties. 7237. This just previous to the election?— Yes. 7238. Did the same thing take place at fairs and markets, previous to the election, wherever there was a large congregation of people?— It did. 7239. Mr. O'Connell.'] Were you present at any fair or market where that was declared ?— No. 7240. Were you present at any catholic chapel or church in which any denun- ciation was pronounced ?— No. 7241. You spoke of threats by people coming to the houses and making graves ; was there any voter injured before the election?— No, they generally kept out of the way ; they were afraid to stay in their places at night; they kept away, and went to neighbours' houses and other places where they thought they could escape. 7242. How many have been injured since the last election?— I could not tell. 7243. Can you tell the name of any one who has been injured by violence?—• I have heard of many instances of their being maltreated in markets and fairs, and attacked coming home. 7244. Do you know of any prosecution instituted for any violence committed ? — No, I do not know of any prosecution. 7245. Mr. Lefroy.~] Did they venture to prosecute?— No, I have not heard of any of them prosecuting. 7246. Mr. O'Connell.] Then the Committee are to understand that, besides the instances you mention, you have not known any tenants deprived of their tenures for voting against the will of their landlords?— No, I do not know of any tenants turned out. 7247. Is it your opinion that if the landlord left the tenant completely to him- self to do as lie liked, the Catholic tenantry would have voted otherwise than they did ?— I think if there was no influence upon the other side. 7248. If there was 110 influence of any kind on either side?— I think if there was no influence 011 either side the Roman- catholic tenant would support his landlord, be his politics what they might, provided the landlord was kind and as he should be to them. 7249. Though the landlord was known to be a person exceedingly hostile to the Roman- catholic religion, and the civil rights of the Roman- catholics ?— Yes, I do not think that it enters into their heads, except they are informed of it. 1 do not think they set themselves to think upon that point; I think they consider that the landlord has the first claim. 7250. But the question put is upon the supposition of the landlord waiving his claim, and leaving them to themselves ; you think in that case they would be as readv to vote for a gentleman they knew to be an Orangeman as for a Roman- catholic ?— It is never done; the landlord either asks them, or causes somebody to ask them. 7251. What would be your opinion in a case in which the man was free from any bias upon him by the landlord, upon the one hand, or any species of intimidation 643. f 3 UP° n 4/ T„ Courtenay, Esq. 27 March 1838.