353 M I N U T E S OF E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E T I IE John Julian, Esq. 3 4^ 48. Were there many Conservative votes rejected ?— There was never one rejected on account of the want of value; there were some rejected on legal .. July 1838. objections. 14049. Did Mr. Gibson apply the same principle to both parties-— De- cidedly. . 14950. In that respect there was fairness and impartiality, not leaning to one more' than the other ?— Certainly not. 14051. Whatever impeachment you make of Mr. Gibson is one against his judgment, and not against his integrity by any means ?— I should be very sorry to make any impeachment against him, or to be considered as impeaching him in any way. 14952. You differ with him in judgment?— Yes, I differ with him in opinion. 14953. You have no intention to convey any imputation upon his fairness, or desire to act impartially ?— Certainly not, in the slightest degree. 14954. Mr. Lefroy. In those cases in which Mr. Gibson registered parties who had let off part of their land, do you recollect the relative value of what the party retained, and what he let; did it appear that the part let out was clearly sufficient to cover the outgoings, so as to leave the remaining part clear, and to show that he was right in the application of the principle of the clear yearly value of 10/. over and above the outgoings?— T only speak to the general principle which Mr. Gibson proposed to adopt; I form my opinions from those he judicially expressed; I will not say there may not have been cases going beyond those principles, one or two cases ; but I speak from what he himself professed to be the principle upon which he acted in the registration of voters; I have not professed to give my evidence from particular cases, but more from principles perfectly understood by me, as the agent for the party in the country. 14955. By the Reform Act the applicant is not obliged to produce a legal title- deed of the landlord under whom he may claim or derive ?— No. 14956. But is at liberty, by proving possession or perception of the rents, to give prima facie evidence of the landlord's title ; is not that so ?— It is. 14957. Generally speaking, do tenants avail themselves of this privilege by not producing the title- deeds of their landlords ?— There was never an instance in which a tenant produced the landlord's title- deeds. 14958. They went upon the parol evidence of perception of rents, or pos- session ?— Yes. 14959. Did Mr. Gibson require them in all cases to give prima facie evidence of perception ?— There has been latterly a considerable class of voters created thus in the King's County. A father possessing a certain quantity of land demises, by lease, to the son a portion of it; under that lease the son gets into the possession, and he treats as to the portion of which he is thus in possession altogether with the head landlord, as if there were no intermediate tenant be- tween him and the head landlord. 14960. How do you mean " he treats"?— Pays him his rent, and, in fact, has no dealing with the person who makes him the lease ; the case operates as an assignment of a portion of the land by the person who makes the lease, and the lease is generally for the same term as the lessor holds under the head landlord. In cases of that sort several questions have arisen as to the right of the person thus deriving an interest to register; there have been some rejected on the ground that the party thus in possession derived no interest. I should say they never pay rent to the person under whom they purport to de- rive ; but they assign a portion of their present interest. In a great majority of those cases the parties were registered. 14961. Mr. O'Connell Were the parties rejected produced on the Liberal side ?— Some of them on the Liberal side, but the great majority of that class of persons was admitted, for instance, persons swearing, notwithstanding these circumstances, that they considered themselves liable for the rent to the person who made them the lease, and they were admitted. 14962. Mr. Lefroy.'] Did the lease reserve any rent?— Yes; it reserved the portion of the rent payable to the head landlord." 14963. Mr. O'Connell.] Which made it payable by the terms of the lease to the lessor ?— Yes. 14964.