\ 30 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE T. Courtenay, Esq. He must take them to some village or place and keep them there, or else hire them out if he has a family of boys. 27 March 1838. Suppose he has a young family of 8 or 10 children, he has two ways of supporting them ; one by his money, another by taking land, and saving the money that he would otherwise be obliged to lay out upon them ?— Yes. 7041. Now, if he takes a farm worth 20 /. a year, he will not pay this 20/. a year, unless he has something more out of the land than 20 I. a year ?— He cannot pay it if he does not make it out of it. 7042. And make more than the actual money he pays ?— He must make more of it, because he feeds his family and supports them ; and when he feeds his family and clothes them, if he has no other resources, he must make more than the 20 /. 7043. Do you think that a man pays 20 I. a year for a farm in Ireland, and gets no more value out of it than the mere 20 l. ?— I am afraid it is too much the case. 7044. Would you consider that that came within the oath that a solvent tenant could afford to pay 20 L a year for the property ?— No, I do not think it would. 7045. Mr. French.] Can you conceive a man paying 20 I. a year rent, having a family of 8 or 10 children, and feeding and clothing that family, to have a beneficial interest of 10/.?— If he had no more than food and clothing for his family, I do not think he would. 7046. What would it cost to feed and clothe his wife, and 8 or 9 children, in a town ?— It depends upon the description of town he went to ; rents are higher and lower. 7047. Take your own town?— It would be difficult to say. 7048. Would he do it for 10/. a year?— If he took a lodging in a town, I should say not. 7049. Mr. Lefroy.] Do many of those voters whom you consider as not quali- fied, pay so high a rent as 20 /. a year ?— Not many of them. 7050. And therefore the case put, of a. man paying 20a year rent, having a profit or a qualification of 10/. arising out of it, would not apply to many of those voters whom you consider as objectionable for want of qualification ?— No, where their rent does not come up to 201. 7051. Mr. O'Connell.] Can you state positively, of your own knowledge, that any one by name of those 300 voters is a bad voter ?— I can. 7052. Name him?— Michael Gilleesy ; I will state the particulars of his case. 7053. Where does he live?— At a place called Garrycam. 7054. In what parish or barony ?— In the barony of Ardagh. 7055. You do not know the parish ?— No. 7056. Who is he tenant to ?— I think he is tenant now to a Mr. Grady. 7057. Who is he tenant to of the lands out of which he registered?— That is the land, Garrycam ; Major Montgomery was the owner of the property ; he died some time ago, and his widow married a Mr. Grady, therefore it is that I say I think it is now Mr. Grady's, 7058. Chairman. J Will you state the case?— That case was returned to me by Mr. Sherrard, and the conclusion that he came to was, that if he had the eight acres and a half rent- free, he could not have a 10/. qualification, so bad was the holding. 7059. Mr. O'Connell.-] Is your information derived from Mr. Sherrard ?— I have seen the holding myself passing the road. 7060. Did you so examine it as to be able to put it at this value yourself?— I did not. ^ 7061. You were asked if you could state any case of your own knowledge?— That is a case in which, having seen the farm, and afterwards having ascertained that from Mr. Sherrard, upon putting those together, I have no hesitation in speaking to it as I do. 7062. Do you know the rent that that man pays?— I think it is iS s. an acre. ; 70% Mr. Lefroy.] How many acres had he ?— Eight acres and a half. 7064. And he qualified as a 10/. voter out of that?— Yes. 7065. Mr. O'Connell.'] Can you state positively his rent?— Not positively. 7066. Mr. Hogg.] Are you sure that it was not above a guinea an acre?— I do not think it was. 7067. Mr.