353 M I N U T E S O F E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E T I IE M Kelly Esq 14404. Nor did he in any case during the registration require to see the deed ' of the claimant ?— Never during my attendance. 29 June 1838. 14405. Mr. French.'] Have you any doubt that Mr. Gibson would have come to the same decision had the person claiming to register been upon the Conser- vative side ?— I have no doubt whatever that he would. 14406. You say that you consider that that decision of Mr. Gibson's enabled, fictitious voters to be placed upon the register ?— I did not say that it enabled them ; I say, that it is calculated to facilitate the registry of fictitious voters; but 1 know no particular instance in which it had the effect. 14407. In this particular case of Hugh Carroll, can you state from your own knowledge of the circumstances, or of your own legal education, that Mr. Bat- tersby could have sustained an objection to the claimant being permitted to register?— My idea is, that the commOn course in every court of justice certainly is, where a deed is produced in evidence, to allow the opposite party an oppor- tunity of inspecting it; in fact, it is not evidence unless the opposite party lias an opportunity of inspecting it; and I believe the courts even go the length of enabling the opposite party to have a copy of the deed or instrument offered in evidence. I am not aware that in Hugh Carroll's case, he could have sustained the objection. 14408. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] It would be necessary for you to see the in- strument to answer that question ?— Or more than that, to have been instructed as Mr. Battersby was; I had no instructions whatever upon the subject. 14409. Mr. Litton.] You have said that Mr. Battersby, upon his credit as a barrister, stated that he had instructions which would enable him to impeach it with effect ?— He did. 14410. Did you ever, in your experience as a barrister, know under such cir- cumstances the inspection of an instrument refused ?— Never. 14411. Is not it, according to your view, against every principle governing courts of justice?— It seems to be contrary to the practice of the courts altogether. 14412. And contrary to every principle of justice?— And I should say even contrary to justice. 14413. And calculated to lead to fraud, and to the greatest possible mischief? — I should sav so. 14414. Mr. French.] Are you aware that it is the rule of the majority of assistant barristers in Ireland to refuse the inspection of instruments ?— I am not aware of such being the fact; I believe that some assistant barristers have so decided. 14415. Mr. Litton.] Was there any other case in which leases were refused ? — There was no other that I am aware of; the rule being taken to be settled, the question never was raised again. I believe it usually is the practice not to occupy the time of the court when a judge declares a question to be ruled. 14416. Have you long resided in the King's County?— I was born in the county. 14417. From your knowledge of registrations, can you say whether it is the habit of the people there to get up an instrument for the purpose of getting a franchise?— I cannot say upon that subject; there are some cases that appear upon my notes to raise a very strong impression that, even in those cases, the instrument was fraudulently created between father and son. There are various instances of that kind, where, for example, a lease was made from the father to the son; and the son never paid any rent to the father, but ever after paid rent to the head landlord. 14418. Then, from what you observed at this registration, at which you so attended, your belief is that there were fraudulent leases ?— My belief ' is that there were some. 14419. That belief arising from your observation?— From my observation. 14420. That there were some fraudulent leases and instruments got up for the purpose of registration ?— I believe there were some, from my observation ; some one or two cases. 14421. Will you state two or three of the strongest cases?— I am afraid that I cannot, not having an index for that purpose; but I am quite sure that they will arise, as connected with the point of value, or under some other head. 14422. Mr.