353 M I N U T E S OF E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E T I IE G. Battersby. • 26 Jnne 1838. 14336. Mr. O'Connell You said a little while ago, In your opinion, accord- ing to your estimate, the difference between calculating the 10 I. upon the bene- ficial value, and the 10 I. solvent tenant, would pay the voter's own rent, being 10/., amounts, in your judgment, to only 1 /• ?— The honourable Member has not exactly expressed what I said. 14337. What did you mean to say?— What I mean to say is this : suppose the man's rent be ] 0 his county cess 10 /., and his annual outlay 10 /., that man must have an annual return of 30 1. in order to give him a franchise, and upon that test that man will have 9 I. in his pocket to spend, and that is the test for which the Solicitor- general and Serjeant Greene contended before the judges. With respect to the judges'test, if the same man pay 10?. rent, the county cess being 1 l, and the outlay 10 /., that man must have a return of 31 I. annually, in order to meet that test of the judges ; so that upon that state of facts, as I view it, there is just 1 Z. in dispute. 14338. But then you know no tenant would give 31 /. for it, unless there was a further return made ?— The question is not, and the form of the oath is not whether it would be prudent in a solvent tenant to do it, but whether he can afford to do it. Now a man can afford to do that by which he will not lose. 14339. Then the interpretation you put upon it is not what he could afford as a prudent man, speculating on a profit above his outgoings, but what he could do without a loss ?— Yes, and I understand the Legislature to use these words merely as a test, and evidence to try whether the man had a clear 10 I. to spend. That is the way it appears to me they used it. Veneris, 29° die Junii, 1838. MEMBERS PRESENT. Mr. F. French. Mr. Hogg. Mr. Serjeant Jackson. Mr. Litton. Lord Granville Somerset. LORD GRANVILLE SOMERSET, IN THE CHAIR. Edmund Meares Kelly, Esq., called in ; and Examined. E. M. Kelly, Esq. 14340- Chairman.'] WHAT is your profession ?— I am a barrister. 14341- Residing where?— In the city of Dublin. 29 June 1838. 14342. How long have you been a barrister?— Upwards of five years. 14343. Have you been connected in any way with the registration of voters in King's County ?— I have taken reports of the proceedings at several of the sessions held in the town of Parsonstown, at the instance of the Local Registry Association. 14344- On which side was that Registry Association formed ? — It is Con- servative. 14345- Mr. Litton.] For how long have you been in the habit of attending those registrations?— I attended the general registration in 1832, at the town of Birr; not during the entire of it, but during a considerable portion of it; but I took 110 report whatever of the proceedings at that period. 14346. When did you commence to take a report of the proceedings?— The first report I took was of the registry sessions held at Birr on the 2d of April 1836, which was the second registry sessions at which Mr. Gibson presided. 14347. Did you attend at the first registry sessions at which he presided?— I did. 14348. Did you take notes there ?— I took a note of a single case, which I have not now; I have written to Ireland for it, and think I shall be able to pro- cure it; but I have it not. That was a case in which Mr. O'Moore was examined in opposition to the vote of a man named Derrivan. 14349. Which was the first sessions at which you regularly took notes of the proceedings?— The sessions of April 1836. 14350. When was Mr. Gibson appointed ?— The January sessions of 1836 was the first sessions at which he attended. After April 1 836 I think there was one