3M V 322 M I N U T E S O F E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E T H E T. Courtenay, Esq. 13621. Did you ever, upon any occasion, hear him complain to Mr. Fosberry that one of the police had assaulted him?— I think I heard him complain that the 12 June 1838. police had insulted him, but I cannot say whether it was upon that day. 13622. You are not certain whether it was not upon the same day that he addressed the speeches which you recollect to Mr. Fosberry that one of the police had insulted him ?— I am not aware, but I should rather say that it was not upon • that dav. 13623. Did he address the bench upon more than one occasion in a manner that seemed to you to be violent or calculated to excite observation?— I think he did upon more than one occasion, but there was not the same excitement; I cannot speak positively as to any but one day, for I did not feel myself in jeopardy at any other time. 13624. Did you ever hear him use any expression to Mr. Fosberry, or to the people, of this description, that " the Government ought to be ashamed to send such an ermined idiot to administer the law"?— I do not recollect that I did. 13625. If Fosbcrry, in his evidence, stated that Mr. Curran had never but upon one occasion appeared to be excited, do you think he would be correct in that statement ?— He might. 13626. And if Mr. Fosberry, in his evidence, stated that Mr. Curran's excite- ment was caused by one of the policemen having touched him or insulted him, would you be supposed to think that statement correct?— I might. 13627. And if Mr. Fosberry stated that Mr. Curran's demeanour was perfectly civil and courteous towards him, but that he made a complaint of a policeman, would you think that was correct?— Upon the occasion I refer to, I would not; for as my recollection serves me, his first observation was addressed to the bench, and as an appeal from the bench, not being satisfied with the answer he got, his language was then addressed to the people standing around. 13628. You did not hear what the nature of his address to the bench was?— No/ 13629. Mr. Lefroy.] The address to the bench might have been in terms that were discourteous, though he was not satisfied with the determination of the bench ? — They might, but I do not recollect anything about an " ermined idiot;" I do not recollect that he went so far as that. 13630. Mr. Curry.] If Mr. Fosberry stated that it was in consequence of the complaint of Mr. Curran of the conduct of one of the police that he himself sent to the barracks for a proper force to preserve order in the court, would he state what is correct?— There was nothing improper that came under my observation as regarded the police, certainly; but, as I stated before, Mr. Curran did make a complaint to the bench that he had been insulted by the police. 13631. If Mr. Fosberry stated that nothing could be more courteous than Mr. Curran's manner to him, and that there was no unpleasant altercation between him and Mr. Curran during the whole time of the registry, would that be correct or not?— Not, in my judgment, as regards the particular occasion I have referred to. 13632. You have already stated that you did not hear the observations that were addressed by Mr. Curran to Mr. Fosberry ?— I did not. 13633- From what, then, do you infer that his conduct was not courteous ?— His manner directly after became excited, and the observations that dropped from him drew the people round the table and upon the table, and that commenced the excitement. It was my impression that Mr. Fosberry's reply to whatever Mr. Curran's question was was of such a nature as to draw forth this. 13634. Might not that excitement on the part of Mr. Curran have also been caused by a recollection of the insult which he received from the policeman ?— It might; but it did not appear to me to be so, for I did not see any policeman near him or interfere with him at all. 13635. Might not the policeman have been near and interfered with him without your seeing it ?— He might; but I scarcely think he could, for I was standing directly opposite him. 13636. Do not you think it probable that the fact was so, when Mr. Curran made that the subject of his application to Mr. Fosberry ?— Yes, I think he might have fancied that the policeman insulted him. 13637. But whether it was mere fancy, or whether the fact was so, do not vou think that might occur, and might account for Mr. Curran's excitement ?— It might. 13638. Did