V 312 M I N U T E S O F E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E T H E ' Courtenay Esq. 13576. Now, take it at that time; is it your opinion that the Catholics had not a ' _ L just ri< rht to have that Act?— My own opinion was that they had a just right. 12 June 1838. 13577. And that Lord Lorton was unjust in opposing it?— It is not for me to judge Lord Lorton. { 3578. But anybody else that did so would do that which you think unjust, would not he ?— I do not know that I can say unjust. 1 3579. Improper ?— Or improper. Every man must judge for himself. 135S0 But your opinion is that the Catholics had a just right to it?— It is. 13581. Toil must think, therefore, that he who deprives a man of a just right is unjust; whatever his purity of intention may be, yet that his conduct is unjust?— I thought at the time they had a right to it. 13582. Do not you think any man is unjust that resists a right?— I cannot say unjust for such a right as that, for it is a matter so much of public opinion. If a man resists a private right, I think he is unjust. 13583. But a man that resists a public right of thousands and millions, you think is not unjust ?— He does it on his own judgment. 13584. Do not you think his judgment is a wrong one?— I do not think he is unjust by so doing. 13585. Do not you think the act is unjust?— I do not; that is, I would not accuse an individual of injustice for holding his own opinion. 13586. The question is not as to his intention, but as to the act; you think it just that the franchises should be conceded ; you think that the Catholics had a right to it; must not then the act of resisting what is just, of resisting a right, necessarily be unjust, however well- intentioned the party may be?— I do not look at it in that way. 13587. If you do not think it unjust, do you think it just?— I think it right for every man to hold his own opinion. 13588. That one man has a right to the franchise, and another man has a right to keep him out of it ?— If he thinks so. 13589. So that it does not depend upon the thing itself, but it depends upon the thoughts of men respecting it ?— I think every man has a right to his own opinion. 13590- Chairman.] Do you think it unjust that women have not the power of voting at elections ?— I do not think that it is matter of injustice. 13591. Supposing a person to entertain that opinion, would you conceive you were committing an act of injustice in opposing that opinion?— I would not. 13592. Mr. Hogg.] Can you characterize the act of any man as unjust if you believe that the man acts as he himself in his own judgment thinks right ?— I would not venture to do it. 13593- Mr. O'Connell.] Then Sir William Courtenay was not wrong, according to you, if he thought he was doing right ?— He may have been mad, and I have no doubt was. 13594. But all the people that went with Courtenay were not mad?— That is a different question altogether. 13595- Is not the principle the same, although the illustration is different ?— I think not. 13596- Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] You think the principle is the same, applicable to those two cases ?— I do not think it is. 13597- You were asked your opinion as to what passed in the mind of Lord Lorton as to the repeal of the Emancipation Act; are you aware of any act he has ever done with a view either to repeal the Emancipation Act, or to deprive the Roman- catholics of any benefit they enjoy under the Emancipation Act?— I am not aware of any such act. 13598. Do you believe that he ever did any such act?— I do not believe he ever did. 13599- y° u believe that any other of those landlords in the county of Long- ford to whom reference has been made in the course of this examination have sought to repeal the Emancipation Act, or to do any act which should have the effect of depriving the Roman- catholics in Longford" of the benefit they ought to enjoy under the Emancipation Act ? — No, I do not. 13600. Chairman.'] It has been stated by Mr. Simon Nicoll, in answer to question 10745, that he considered that Lord Forbes being a relative of the Marquis of Anglesea, the Marquis of Anglesea was anxious that he should repre- sent the county of Longford ; can you state whether you believe, from your know- ledge