John F. Fosbery, Esq. 8 June 1838. V 298 M I N U T E S O F E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E T H E testamentary documents, as evidence of title ; a great many seemed to me to be very imperfect, and required a good deal of investigation; but it showed me a strong effort was made to bring up every one who had any sort of title to support his claim. . . iqi02. Have you your book here, so as to be able to give us any light in the case" of Christopher Fitz- Simon, of Balinacross, near Granard /— He was rejected ; that is the only entry I have : " 10/. freeholder; rejected." 1 - 103. You do not happen to recollect any of the circumstances of the case? jJ10t the least; there being counsel on each side, there were note- takers on each side, and therefore I did not require to be so particular in making notes as I otherwise should. They had their own note- takers, and appeared by their own counsel. 13104. Mr. Curry.] You have no note of the ground upon which you rejected Christopher Fitz- Simon ?— No. 13105. Do you happen to know that lie was admitted at the Longford sessions following by Mr. French ?— No, I have no knowledge of that whatever; I have not the remotest recollection of his case. 13106. Mr. Lefroy. J Have you any other observations upon the subject of the registry which it would be important to lay before the Committee?— No more than this : there were a great number of persons produced as witnesses; so many, that in many cases the contrariety of swearing was so great, it de- pended more upon the probability of what was sworn than any actual test of the truth. They started up from all sides if you discredited a voter, and said, you did not think he had sufficiently proved his value. It is necessary to state, I first examined the claimant myself, and if I was satisfied of what he swore, I said, " I am satisfied with this person ;" then the counsel cross- examined him, and afterwards evidence was brought up in any case in which it was necessary to support his vote, and a great number of persons came forward, very often from both sides of the court, saying, " I will give 10/. for his freehold, I will give 10/. for his freehold," and jumped upon the table, where they swore to the value. I have had in some cases 10 or 12 witnesses, and the greatest con- tradiction between them, so that in many cases I was obliged to decide upon the probability of what was true, rather than upon the swearing on either side. There was the most direct contradictory swearing. In many cases I tried, a great many of the claimants themselves came forward under the impression, and you could never divest them of the idea, that the actual value was what it was worth to the individual himself. The man thought the farm upon which he lived was worth a great deal to him. 13107. Then, from what you observed in the course of that long inquiry, you conceive it would be desirable to have some other test of value besides that of the oath of the party, or the oath of other witnesses?— Unquestionably; I was always of that opinion, and said it would be preferable to take the payment of the county cess as a test than the 10/. value. The payment of county cess, though not a good test, would be much better than the other mode. 13108. That is, any self- controlling check ; a check by which the interest of the party, in reference to the value, is set against the interest of obtaining the franchise, would be the most satisfactory test ?— Yes, a certain pecuniary test of payment arising from his tenure. 13109. Then if any uniform rate were established throughout the country for a certain purpose, such as for the Poor Law, should you consider that would be a desirable criterion bv which to ascertain the value ?— Certainly, it would be a fair test to judge by, and it would prevent a great deal of false swearing. 13110. And a great deal of uncertainty ?— Yes, and a great deal of uncer- tainty. 13111. Mr. Curry.} You say a great many attempts to put bad votes upon the registry took place before you ?— I think so. 13112. Do I understand you to say those attempts were made only on the side of the Liberal party?— I think there were more attempts on the side of the Liberal party to put bad votes on the registry, and I will tell you why: there was a great number of the large landholders, who were on the Conservative side, who had large estates, and who had a great number of good votes. 13113. Was not that the case with the Liberal side also ? Yes. 131 M- You said Colonel White's tenants were very good ?— Yes ; I did not reject more than two of them; they were excellent tenants. 13115. Then,