S E L E C T C O M M I T T E E O N F I C T I T I O U S V O T E S , I R E L A N D . 277L ? / 12815. Generally ?— I should think there were about 5,000 or 6,000. 12816. And there were five or six that might require that exhortation5 Yes. 12817. Mr. Hogg.] Any landlord interfering in that way directly or indi- rectly by inducements, before or after an election, would act, according to your opinion of political integrity, very wrong, would he not ?— Certainly. 12818. You have mentioned in commendation rather than in reprobation, that the two Mr. Whites have let their land at less than its value to make votes 5 is that consistent with political integrity ?— It is, and I will tell you why; there was never an instance in which Mr. White interfered with a tenant to make him go against his conscience ; I do not know that he ever canvassed an elector at all. When a candidate came forward he said he did not approve of him, but he said, " though I do not approve of him, I will leave my tenants to do as they please." 12819. Do you believe Mr. White or any gentleman would, for political pur- poses, as you have mentioned, underlet his land 18 or 20. s\ an acre, unless under a distinct understanding that the tenant should vote with him ?— Yes, I do; I do not believe that Mr. White would, for though he is a Member of Parliament now he would rather be a private gentleman. 12820. Would any gentleman underlet his land for political purposes to make votes, unless he was certain that those voters would go for him ; I ask, with your ideas of human nature and human intentions, would any gentleman underlet his land 18 s. or 20 s. an acre to make freeholds, except under a distinct understanding that those votes when made would go with him ?— No, I do not think he would. 12821. Chairman.] Do you consider that understanding right or wrong?— I do not mean there was an understanding between the tenant and himself. 12822. Do you conceive that understanding to be right or wrong, according to your views of what is correct ?— If a landlord gives a lease to a man, and says " you must vote with me, let your opinions be what they may;" if the tenant should bind himself to that he would do wrong, and the landlord would do wrong. 12823. Mr. Hogg.~\ If the landlord were sure that the tenant would act from his political feelings, and in approbation of his political conduct, would there be any necessity to add the inducement of the land being underlet 18.?. or 20 s. an acre ?— I do not understand the question. 12824. You have stated the voting of the tenants for their landlords in some cases to be perfectly right, because they approve of their principles ; but if the tenants who approve of their landlord's principles would certainly vote with him, would there be any necessity for adding the inducement of underletting the land 18 s. or 20 an acre ?— Of course lie could not vote without a qualification. 12825. Can no voter in Ireland vote as a freeholder unless he holds land at 18 s. or 20 s. an acre below the market price?— No ; for he must vote as a 10 I. freeholder, and unless he has an interest to qualify him in that way he cannot be registered. 12826. Then this manoeuvre of letting land at 18 s. or 20 . v. an acre under its value makes a man a freeholder who would not otherwise be so ?— I do not call it a manoeuvre. 12827. Then do you believe that any landlord would do that except upon the condition of the tenant voting for himself?— Yes, I believe Mr. White would. 12S2S. I am not talking of Mr. White in particular; but would any gentle- man make voters in the way you have described, except on the understanding that the voters when made would go with himself or with his political opinions ? — With his political opinions; I should think so. 12829. And that is quite consistent with your ideas of perfect propriety ?— I should think he would consider what kind of tenant he would give it to ; some might do so. 12830. Is it consistent with your ideas of political propriety and integrity, that creation of votes by the means you have mentioned, in the way you have mentioned ?— I must ask you to repeat the question. 12831. If a gentleman creates a vote in the manner you have mentioned, by letting land under its value, and there exists an understanding that the vote when made will go with the landlord who makes it, is that consistent with your ideas of political propriety and political integrity ?— No ; I think he ought only 643. M M 3 t0