S E L E C T C O M M I T T E E O N F I C T I T I O U S V O T E S , I R E L A N D . 263L ? / 12737. Then you never heard of any such instance, and you never heard of Rev. E. M'Gaver. a clergyman coming to an election town at the head of his parishioners to vote ? — No, I do not know that I did see him coming at their head. 1 June 1838. 12738. You then do not think they are as busy on their side as you are on yours ?— No ; I do not think their interference would be as useful; it is plain they have not the same influence over their flocks that the Catholic clergy have. 12739. But you do not believe they are so active?— As to their activity, I know nothing of it, except their voting. Perhaps I may be allowed to state I wish to correct the name of a Protestant clergyman I gave the last day; I stated it was Mr. Maguire ; I find it was Mr. Heron; he voted for us at the last election. 12740. Mr. Hogg.'] In the exhortations ( I seek the matter of fact; I do not put the question offensively to yourself or any other gentleman) of yourself or any other of the Catholic clergy, when you state you used as strong language as you could, from the altar or any other part of the chapel, were they ever accompanied by any threats of withholding any particular rites from those who did not conform to the will of the clergy ?— Never. 12741. You do not know, and never heard of any instance in which there was more than an exhortation, in which there was an exhortation accompanied by a threat of any kind ?— No, never accompanied by a threat. 12742. Direct or implied ?— Neither direct nor implied. I would consider, if I held out a threat, I would not be doing my duty. I consider it is my duty to explain to them the moral view I take of that subject; that therefore I would, by confining myself to that, do no more than my duty ; but if I used a threat, I would be going beyond my duty. 12743. With reference to the state of the flocks that were addressed by you in those exhortations, with reference to their feelings, moral and religious, and their state of education, do you not in your conscience believe such exhortations would, in point of fact, and whatever your intention might be, be compulsory upon every individual you addressed ?— No, I do not think it would be com- pulsory by any means; they might reason upon it. 12744. With reference to the moral and religious feelings, and the state of education of those you addressed, do you not believe it would be considered as compulsory on the conscience and the acts of almost every individual you addressed ?— Certainly not compulsory. 12745. In point of fact, did not, either by that or other means, almost every individual in your flock vote as you directed and desired?— Most of them did. 12746. Was there one out of 100 who did not ?— We had not 100 freeholders in Cashel. 12747. How many?— There were 40 01* 50 belonging to my flock. 12748. How many of those voted contrary to your exhortations?— At the first election they all voted according to it. 12749. They all voted according to your exhortations?— Yes; at that time there were trades unions in the country. At that period, before the registration of 1833, all over the country there were county meetings and trades unions; they were so filled with the notion of politics then, that in some townlands, where they were poor persons, they would get a newspaper; they were all alive to politics; and 1 rather believe it was owing to the feeling that was raised by newspapers ; at all events, that aided and assisted the view I gave them in registering and voting as they did. In the election after that, there were three or four that either voted against us, or did not vote at all, contrary to my expectation, for I was with them. 12749*. How many of the freeholders of your flock could read and write?— At present I do not remember an instance of any that could not read and write: the farmers were exceedingly intelligent. 12750. Generally speaking, they could read and write?— Yes. 12751. Mr. Milnes Gaskell.~] Whose tenants are the greater proportion of your parishioners at present ?— Colonel White's, Mr. Bonynga's, Lady Ross's, Mr. Jessop's and Mr. Slater's; those are the principal. 12752. Mr. Hogg.] Before the Roman- catholic clergy took this part in politics you have mentioned, did not, in point of fact, the Roman- catholic tenantry vote with their landlords, whether those landlords were Liberal or Con- 643. L L 4 servative -