V 268 M I N U T E S O F E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E T H E Rev. E. M'Gaver. 12690. He was always a very liberal landlord?— I think, until within the 7 last few years, he was considered a liberal landlord. 1 June 1838. 12691- 2. Were you in the court- house at the election before the last, when he stated what his conduct would be for the future as to Roman- catholics ?— I was in the court- house; from the clamour I could not hear what he said; but my attention was afterwards called to what he did say, by a paragraph in the Longford Journal, in which an " Edgeworth's Town Correspondent" asked him to change the conditional threat he made, which was this, that if they would go against him he never would give land to Catholics; he asked him not to give his threat a condition, but to make it absolute, and it would be a charity to him, and a charity to the Catholics: that was the first time I heard what he said; though I was present, from the bustle and noise, I did not hear what was said. 12693. Do you not believe he declared, that, in consequence of the influence by which the interference was wrought to separate his tenants from him, he was determined, though he never before made any difference between lloman- catliolics and Protestants in leasing his land, from that time forth not to give leases to Roman- catholics?— All my knowledge of what he said that day is taken from that article. 12694. From what you have heard reported of his speech that day in the court- house, have you any doubt that he spoke to that effect ?— I have no doubt of it; I saw it reported, and have not heard it contradicted. 12695. And do you not believe the effect of the system pursued by the Roman- catholic clergy has been to increase the evil you spoke of, of Roman- catholic tenants being put out in order to introduce Protestants?— They have been turned out since that, but it did not necessarily follow from the conduct of the Roman- catholic clergy that the landlords should act in the manner they have done. 12696. I did not ask you whether it necessarily followed, but I ask you whether you do not believe that has been a consequence which has followed ? — I do believe it partly. 12697. Then do you believe the Roman- catholic clergy are consulting either the interests of their flocks, or the peace of the country, or promoting the good- will which it is desirable should subsist between landlord and tenant, by pursuing the course they have been pursuing of late ?— I do consider, and I acted upon that consideration, that if I saw others, be they landlords or who they may, acting wrong contrary to the law of the land, and contrary to the natural law, that should not terrify us from doing that which we conceive to be our duty— instructing the people in their moral duties; and although it should ultimately happen that the landlord should take what we conceive to be a mistaken notion of the welfare and well- being of the country, and that they should persecute ( for I can call it by no other name) tenants who vote for those they think will do their work best in Parliament; if they do such acts, they are to be accountable both here and hereafter; but I should not do my duty to my flock if I were to be terrified from it by such acts. [ The last question was directed to be read to the Witness.] 12698. Having heard the question read, I would ask whether 3 011 can give me no more direct answer to my question than that ?— If we look to the pre- sent, I admit that it is not consulting either; but if we look to the future, here- after we calculate upon having peace and good- will established among all, by getting what we consider proper representatives; those who will look to the interests of the poor of the country. 12699. Then you make your own judgment the infallible criterion of what would be a good representative ?— Of course we judge according to our own feeling in that. 12700. And you think it is more important that the Roman- catholic clergy should be judges upon that subject than that the constituency left to itself should form a judgment ?— I must say in explanation of that, that the Catholic clergy uo not act solely, as clergy, because they have the Catholic laity and the liberal Protestants with them in the same feeling. We have no division between the Catholic clergy and the laity and the liberal Protestants in Longford. We have our clubs; we are so united in the selection of the persons we name, we come to