\ V 258 M I N U T E S O F E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E T H E Rev e M'Gaver 12650. And any gentleman introducing the English 01* Scotch system in ~ V' large farms must necessarily encounter the prejudices of the people, who think 1 June 1838. that he is doing something that is all wrong ?— Of course, those who are turned out will say he is doing wrong. 12651. And the farmers too, if it contravenes the prejudices of the country ? I know in my neighbourhood a gentleman offered to send his steward to teach them to sow mangel- wurzel, and other things, and he would not he allowed to do it. 12652. Chairman.] I believe the landlords in Ireland are very liberal; they set land at less than they could get for it ? — I believe the general complaint in Ireland is, that land is set too high. 12653. You could not state any landlord in the county of Longford who takes for his land 30, 40 or 50 per cent, less than its real value ?— I have known of late years they have set their lands cheaper than they otherwise would, for the purpose of increasing the number of freeholders. 12654. On both sides?— Yes. 12655. They have let land below its real value for the purpose of making freeholders ?— Yes. 12656. Will you mention any instance of that ?— There is a Mr. Bonynga in the parish of Carrick Edmund, who has as good land, not only as there is in that parish, but in the whole county, and he has set land at 32 s. an acre; that is the highest he has charged for it, and land on the other side of the river is charged 40s., with a fine of 50I., for between 30 and 50 acres— within the last three or four years for the purpose of making freeholds. 12657. Mr. Lefroy What part of Longford is that?— In the parish of Carrick Edmund. 12658. Is he a Conservative ?— No, he is a Liberal. 12659. And he has let his land at that great inferiority of rent for the purpose of making votes ?— Yes. 12660. Mr. Hogg.~\ When did he let it at this reduced rent for this purpose ? — Most of the leases were made before I went there ; since 1835 he made some leases. 12661. But in what way, looking at the Irish Reform Bill, would his letting his land at such a reduced rate below its real value effect his object ?— It would, because in looking to the old Act of the 10 Geo. 4, it is a test of regis- tering freeholders in the county of Longford, that they would get 10?. more than they paid their landlord. 12662. Do you say, that suppose the landlord chose to let his property at 1- s. an acre, which was of the value of 40s., he would be able to effect his object of making votes ?— I do not know. 12663. Supposing the land were worth 40s. an acre to a solvent tenant, and supposing the landlord with the object of making a good vote, instead of charging his tenant 40s. an acre should charge him 1 . v. an acre, would that vote be a good one ?— That would depend upon the number of acres. 12664. Then take the proper number of acres, 10 acres ?— If he only charged 1 s. for land worth 40s., he would have a good vote. 12665. And you mean to say that is the case with a certain number of land- lords in the county of Longford, that they underlet their land for that purpose ? — Yes, I say the head landlords who take an interest in politics, and wish to have freeholders, will calculate what they can set land at for them to have freeholds, and they set it with that view. 12666. Can you state any other landlords in Longford who have set lands in that way ?•— Yes, Colonel White, and Mr. Luke White. 12667. They have let their land at a much inferior value to what it really is ?— Yes. 12668. How much ?— They sent out persons they had confidence in to value it, and make such leases as would enable the tenants to register for 10?. free- holders ; that was their instructions in going out. 12669. In how many instances do you think this has been done ?— It was done last year in the parish of Cashel; there was a middle landlord between them before, and when the landlord came into his possession, he sent out per- sons of the description I mentioned to value it, making such changes in the rent as would make them be freeholders, and they did register their freeholds since. 12670. In