? / f i SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. 2 « " ' minately?— I should be very sorry to have any man turned out without the Rev. E. M'Gaver means of living. . J 12584. Your former answer, as to the improvement of the property, applies 1 June 1838. to the poor tenants as well as to the rich ones ?— I think the poor tenants, if they were encouraged, if they had obtained a holding, or a renewal of their lease, would have improved the land, and made it produce more than those who got it. 12585. Why should they, upon a renewal of their lease, do so much better than they did previous to the expiration of their lease ?— It is well known in Ireland that if a man be a tenant from year to year, and if he knows the feelings of his landlord are hostile to him in politics, he is uncertain of getting a renewal; and therefore, upon the uncertainty, he endeavours to take as much as he can out of the land, to make it as poor as he can; whereas, if he knows he shall have a lease, he endeavours to improve it as much as he can. 12586. With regard to those parties who were dispossessed, had they a lease, or were they tenants from year to year ?— They held under lease. 12587. Then supposing the lease had been renewed, why do you suppose they would have been better tenants under the new lease than under the old lease ?— I do not say they had been bad tenants, I say they paid their rent punc- tually ; there was not more than half- a- year's rent due at that time, and they paid all that was due. One year's rent upon this estate was not allowed to overtake another; it generally happened that the middle landlord was poor, and could not afford to leave the rent in the hands of the tenant. 12588. What do you say was the arrear of rent that was customary to be allowed upon this estate ?— One half- year's rent was paid before the other be- came due. 12589. Supposing the rent became legally due on the 25th of March, when was that rent customary to be paid ?— They might get two months or three months, perhaps, beyond the 21 days after it becomes due. 12590. You mean, the general system of collection of rents upon that estate was, that rent due on the 25th March was paid in two 01* three months ?— Yes. 12591. Supposing the tenant to quit on the 26th March, his holding being to the 25th March, what rent would then be left due by him ?— If he paid up to the 25th March, there would be but one day due then. 12592. Do you mean, the rents that were to be paid on the 26th March were only the half- year's rents due on the 25th March ?— It is never the custom in Ireland to pay rent the day it becomes due, and it is seldom exacted till after the 21 days; when the landlord is distressed himself, or wishes to punish the tenant, he may demand it after the 21 days. 12593- 94. Is there half- a- year's rent always due or not ?— No. 12595. Was there no estate in the county of Longford where there were arrears of rent due for more than half a year, or a year ?— Yes, there were many estates in which there were arrears due for a year, or a year and a half. 12596. Will you mention one?— There was a part of Lord Lorton's estate upon which three half years were due. 12597. Was he a kind landlord or not?— He that same year ejected those tenants who had leases before Lord Lorton purchased it; and there were two or three freeholders upon that estate who voted on the Liberal side, and were served with ejectments for non- payment, and were obliged to clear out before the next season; it was attended with very grievous circumstances, for some had wool bought for the purpose of clothing their children, and they were obliged to sell Iit back. I met a man riding to market to try to get 7 I. to pay his rent, and I was obliged to let him have that sum. 12598. Do you mean to say that Lord Lorton forced persons to pay his rent that were due for 18 months, or two years ?— Yes. 12599. And he never did that except where persons voted in contradiction to his wishes ?— I cannot say never; but I know he did it in this instance. 12600. What number of tenants do you suppose were actually in arrear to Lord Lorton ?— That was a large townland, and there were small holdings and a good many tenants. 12601. Was there any large proportion of the tenants upon that townland in arrear at that period ?— I think all upon that estate were in arrear. 12602. And how many cases of hardship do you depose to ?— It was thickly inhabited, there were a great number of small holdings, and the tenants were 643 K K 4 rather