SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. 215 12549. When were those notes taken with respect to the matters that took Rev. E. M'Gavcr. place in 1833, from which you have now given your evidence?— Do you mean with respect to the whole or the different parishes ? 1 June 1838. 12550. The notes taken of what took place in 1833, from which you have given your evidence ?— So far as regards Carrick Edmund, with reference to the 42 families, I took them in 1833, the rest was taken after getting the sum- mons to come here. 12551. Now, with respect to these 42 families, you stated, in answer to ques tion 12159, that, in the month of November 1833, " there was one man of the name of John Farrell, his wife had a lying- in, actually sick; she would not be allowed to remain in for a day; and she was delivered in the garden and the child died" ?— Yes, I did. 12552. Do you state that to the Committee as a fact within your own knowledge ?— I stated it as a fact, and have given the reason how I came to that fact. 12553. you state that to the Committee as a matter of fact within your own knowledge, or not ?— If my own knowledge mean, that I was present when the child died and the woman was delivered in the garden, I do not state that; I state it from the knowledge I acquired from the persons in and about the place; I stated I had it from them, and that is the way I acquired my know- ledge. 12554. Do you state it then to the Committee as a matter which you believe ? — Yes. 12555. Now be so good as to tell us who you mean to say prevented that woman remaining in the house ?— Of course the persons dispossessing her. 12556. Who were those persons?— The sub- sheriff's name was Wilson in that year, and a driver upon the property of the name of Plant walked with him, between them it was done; I do not know which was the more to ' blame. 1 2557. A driver of the name of Plant, and a person of the name of Wilson, sub- sheriff, were the persons acting upon that occasion ?— Yes, I think so. 12558. Did you make any complaint upon that subject to Lady Ross's agent? — Indeed, I never did; for I did not see any use it would be of. 12559. You say you saw no use in it ?— No. 12560. You thought Mr. Robinson so hard- hearted a man that a barbarous transaction of that sort would have met with his concurrence ?— 1 did not believe that he would approve of it, or any man of humanity; I do not believe, if he was there himself, he would have seen it done. 12561. Then why did you not make a complaint of the driver who witnessed it ?— I did not care about doing so. 12562. Did you not think it was a duty you owed to your own flock, or to the people of the country, as you appear to have been their vindicator, to have made a complaint of that transaction to Mr. Robinson?— If I considered it would have been attended with any good result, I would have done so; but I did not consider that any good result could come from it. 12563. You did not think it would prevent a repetition of the same bar- barity ?— It was a mere accidental thing, her being sick; but I have this feeling, and had then, that my application to Mr. Robinson on their behalf would do them more harm than good. 12564. Then you think, because it was an accidental thing, her being sick, the same thing might not occur again ?— Yes, of course, being an accidental thing. 12565. Do you not think a man who was guilty of that barbarity, though it was an accident, the woman being sick, would be guilty of it again ?— Indeed, I believe he would; for the same day that they were dispossessed, or the day as they lay on the roadside, he said, in the presence of many witnesses, " Now, go to M'Gaver," ( meaning myself,) " and to White and Roarke," ( the two Members,) " and they will get land for you." 12566. That you state of your own knowledge ?— Yes, I state that from the information I got from those who are ready to prove the statement. 12567. Was not that an additional reason for you to make a complaint of such a man ?— It might be, if I could get any person to listen to it; at my instance they memorialized Mr. Robinson and Lady Ross, and a gentleman named Hamilton, living in Dublin, who did business for Lady Ross, but it was 643. K K 3 OF