\ 254 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE Rev. E. M'Gaver. 12242. So that when he has a farm, he has the means of raising capital? — He has. 29 May 1838. 12243. And the capital necessary is only a quantity of cattle?— A quantity of cattle and the implements used in farming. 12244. Spades and shovels and pickaxes?— Yes, and a plough. 12245. Are you a landholder yourself?— I hold, in connexion with my brother, a farm. 12246. It is yours and your brother's estate?— It is. 12247. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] In answer to a former question ( 11860) you stated that whenever you saw a man taking a bribe, you always thought it your duty to discountenance such a practice; have you seen a man take a bribe ?— No, I never did ; I should have said, if I saw him likely to take a bribe. 12248. IIow would you judge of that?— If I saw a man, and he gave reasons why he should not vote for this or that person, he might then state his reasons why; he might state that he expected to get a farm ; that he had a promise of a farm or a situation, or that when his lease would be out he would get a renewal of his lease • I consider that tantamount to a bribe; if a man is influenced in his vote in conse- quence of anything he expects in money, I view that as a bribe. 12249. - Men have told you they were going to vote in consequence of expecting to get a farm?— No ; but they have told me that the reason that they did not vote upon one occasion was, that they expected to get a farm from Mr. White, and they did not get it. 12250. In answer to question 11860, you stated, " I never knew an instance of any of my people being treated with violence or injured in consequence of their votes; and if I spoke of them, it was not for the purpose of having them injured ; on the contrary, I always preached peace, and they generally, I must say, obeyed me; but to discourage men from taking anything like a bribe, whenever I saw that occur, I always thought it my duty to discountenance such a practice." Now, you must perceive that this has reference not to what has taken place after the man has voted, but what takes place before the man goes to vote?— Yes; since ihe year 1832 we have had experience of persons who have taken bribes, and consequently, when another election was coming on, we would find it our duty to explain the nature of that, and to prepare them against it, lest they should receive a bribe. After the thing occurring, we know then whether it did occur or not. 12 251. In your answer to question 11860, you were understood to say that you felt it your duty to speak to the people when you saw any instance of any man taking a bribe. You say, " to discourage men from taking anything like a bribe, whenever I saw that occur, I always thought it my duty to discountenance such a practice"?— I was aware of persons canvassing before the election; and then, if I canvassed them afterwards, if I got an answer to this effect, " that such a person was with me, and I might expect to be rewarded," 1 will find it my duty to speak to him personally ; I considered it my duty to explain to all the nature of a bribe. 12252. Do you mean to say that you never interfered with any of your flock, with a view to their voting at elections, except in cases where an individual was about to take a bribe?— Never. 12253. That you have never addressed your congregation from the altar upon the subject?— I have. 12254. Was everybody in the congregation, whom you so addressed, about to take a bribe ?— No, that is not necessary. 12255. Were not those addresses made to the persons present?— Yes. 12256. All of whom were either qualified to register or qualified to vote? — Yes. 12257. Then you do not mean to say that you took for granted that they were about to be bribed?— No; but it would be oftentimes troublesome to speak to each individual, and therefore it would be better to give instructions, as to moral obligations, in a public way, than to speak to them individually. 12258. Then you do not mean to say that you confined your exhortations upon this subject to those individuals who had either taken a bribe, or were about to take a bribe?— The instructions were intended for the public good. 12259. And you thought that was likely to be the case with your congregation? — No. 12260. Then, if it only applied to individuals, why did not you speak to them personally ?— It is less trouble, and it is more becoming, and I found it more useful than to go about to them individually. 12261. You