7 ? / - SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. 221 11904. And you think that is likely to keep up and promote a happy state of Rev. E. M'Gaver society in that county ?— I do think, unless that had been done, we should never - know the end of the persecutions and wrongs the people have undergone for 25 May 1838. years gone by. 11905. You think then, this which has lately happened, the Roman- catholic tenants being put out in order to introduce Protestant tenants who will act in conformity with the wishes of their landlords, you think that is 110 persecution and no inconvenience ?— I do see it of course and feel it. 11906. Has not that increased greatly since the proceedings to which you have alluded have taken place?— It has; as well as I can understand, those who take part in Tory politics in Longford have pledged themselves not to give land to Catholics. 11907. Then if you are pledged to make the Roman- catholic tenants go against their landlords, and the landlords are pledged not to give a Roman- catholic land, must not the necessary consequence of that be to produce a great rri increase of misery and inconvenience and mischief to your own flocks ?— It may be the result, and that may be the remote cause, but the landlords who do so are, I think, the immediate cause. We only ask the tenants to exercise the right the law gives them. According to our opinion of the law they have that right by law : we ask them only to go according to law ; and if the landlords abuse the law against them for the exercise of that right, let it rest with them. 11908. How is it an abuse of the law for the landlords to exercise their judg- ments, when you claim for yourself and your flock the right to exercise your judgment ?— A man has a right to exercise his judgment; whether the result of that exercise is just or unjust, remains for him to answer. I think when he turns a man out on account of his religion, or of his politics, the landlord does wrong. If the landlord did not exercise any tyranny towards the tenants, we are quite sure how they would vote, and when he does so, it is our duty to see that those who have a right to vote should come forward and register, and see those men sent to Parliament who will see good laws made, and justice impar- tially administered amongst the people. 11909. Have you ever joined any society or come to any resolution to exert yourselves to the utmost to prevent crimes against the law, or outrages against the laws generally ?— We consider from our office we are bound to prevent any crime or immorality or injustice being done to men or property. 11910- 11. Will you be so good as to state any efforts that have been made to ;> prevent crime and outrage at all corresponding with the efforts that have been made to promote political objects?— I conceive they have; I conceive that every clergyman is bound from his office to prevent crime or any injustice whatever, and I have known, independently of that, when illegal societies were' likely to be established, efforts made ; I am aware of our bishops from time to time calling us together and examining what efforts the respective clergymen used to put that down. 11912. How lately have you known that ?— At all times whenever there was a report in the county that such a thing was likely to creep in; it has been invariably done. 11913. To put an end to secret societies?— Yes; and what is more, to show you how far that has been done, our bishop has deprived his clergy of juris- diction to absolve in such cases any persons connected with these illegal societies; that was by way of threat. 11914. And have any exertions been made of late to put down these secret societies ?— Upon all occasions whenever we hear a rumour, we invite the honest ( people of the country to give us a report, when they hear of any such persons coming amongst them who are likely to disseminate such things. 11915. In point of fact, have any efforts been made of late years, within the last two or three, or four years, to put down such secret and illegal societies as these ?— Not only within the last two or three years, but within the last two or three months; whenever we hear of anything of the kind being done. 11916. You have heard of these secret and illegal societies within the last two c< or three months ?— Yes. 11917. And you have taken steps to put them down ?— Certainly. 11918. What is the object of these societies?— I do not know exactly the object of them ; within the last three or four months, or thereabouts, I got a H ticket roughly drawn out brought to me by a parishioner of mine, from the 643. r F 3 invitation