V 76 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE Bryan clogher. 9872. Mr. O'Connell.'] Now take that map in your hand for a moment; you perceive that that which you call beneficial interest, is the gross produce of the May 1838. farm . alI that the farm pro( juces ?— No, not all. 9873. What you call beneficial interest here, is the amount of what the man might sell off the farm, after retaining for himself a sufficiency for his support? — Yes. 9874. And for the actual support of his family ?— Yes. 9875. So that in fact what you call beneficial interest, is the amount which the man would have in money after supporting himself and his family ?— Yes. 9876. But not after clothing them?— No ; his clothing is to be deducted out of that. 9S77. And the clothing of his family ?— And the clothing of his family. 9878. And the price of his labour is to be deducted out of it; for example, if he was sick himself and obliged to hire a labourer, you would have to deduct out of this 86 I. the hire of that labourer?— Of course. 9879. And it is just the same thing, whether he labours upon the farm himself or whether he hires a labourer to do the work upon the farm, lie going himself to some employment elsewhere ?— Precisely. 9880. In either case his own labour ought to be deducted out of the 86/. ?— 9881. Mr. Curry.] No, because he puts opposite the value of the farmer's labour, the value of the provisions which he and his family consume; is not that so ?— Yes. 9882. Mr. O'Connell.] And you also put the value of his capital, in horses and milch cows, against the produce of the pasture ?— Yes. 9883. And in the beneficial interest you do not calculate at all the value of the 12 acres of pasture ?— Yes, I do; where there are six milch cows, I allow him two of the cows, and sell the produce of the other four. 9884. Chairman.] Does a farm of this size completely occupy the time of an industrious man ? Take this farm of Mark Roarke's; is he fully occupied upon it the whole year ?— Fie occupies every perch of it. 9885. But could he labour for another person, and still cultivate his own farm ?—- By keeping two horses, which I understand he does, he would be able, besides cultivating his own farm, to earn something more outside his farm. They generally give labour for a horse to a man who has a horse in their neigh- bourhood. 9886. But could this man occupy himself in other labour, and still cultivate his own farm ?— He could not, unless he had those horses that I allude to; his time would be fully occupied in managing the 22 acres. 9887. Supposing him to have horses, has he or not spare time ?— Very little, if he has to cultivate 22 acres. 9888. Mr. Lefroy.] But you think that he could himself, without additional help, attend to a farm of 22 acres, and cultivate it sufficiently r— He could, with the help of his family. 9889. How many of his family?— He would require one or two sons; I have seen two. 9890. Mr. O'Connell.] If he had not sons lie must hire two labourers ?— Of course. 9891. Is it your opinion that three labourers, the father and two of his sons, would be sufficient for the cultivation of 22 acres?— Yes; for that part of it which is tilled. 9892. And the grass would require nothing more than the herding of the cattle, which almost a child might do ?— Yes.