23 8 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE TIIE 13 March 1838. Mr. J. C. Besnard. and prepared to meet the objections; whilst those who might be interested in 11 the constituency Upon a bond fide footing, would have their attention drawn to cases that were questionable, and not be distracted by having such a crowd of names brought before them, in which they could have no interest, and which could have no other effect than that of puzzling them r— I think that would be the effect of the change I propose. 6 500 Although we have not in Ireland, at present, overseers of the poor, and therefore not precisely the same machinery which they have available in Eng- land our Irish Poor- Law Bill being only now in transit through the House of Commons; have we not in Ireland some machinery available, though not so efficient as that r— In every county of a city, and in every county, you of course have collectors of rates, collectors of grand jury cess, and therefore, so far as regards counties and counties of cities, there would be public officers who could be referred to. There are other places which are under the operation of the Act of 9 Geo. 4, c. 82, the Paving and Lighting Act for Ireland; and there are col- lectors of those rates, who in those places might be substituted for the present for overseers of the poor. 6301. Then your idea is, that we might avail ourselves at present of the ser- vices of the officers to whom you have referred, for the purpose of having the lists made out preparatory to the registering sessions ?— I think so, so far as relates to counties of cities and of towns, and to towns in which the 9th of Geo. 4, c. 82, has been brought into operation. I believe there are some boroughs pos- sessing the elective franchise which are not circumstanced in either of those ways. 6302. Which are neither counties of cities nor counties of towns, nor have applied to come under the operation of the 9tli of Geo. 4. r— Yes ; in some of those there may be, and I believe there are, local Acts under which there are collectors. 6303. In your judgment, if there were a reference to some such standard as that of being rated to the poor- rate, or rated for county purposes, or for the purposes of city taxation, would a reference to such standard as that, upon the subject of the elective franchise, tend very much to prevent perjury and fraud, and the getting rid of that constituency which is not bond fide ?— I think it would have the happiest effects in Ireland for all parties. 6304. At present there must be a great deal of imposition, and not very cor- rect swearing, upon the subject of value :— When persons go to value houses or lands for the purpose of valuation, tliey do it in a calm, deliberate manner, in a way that persons wrho go for political purposes connected with political objects to value do not; I am sure that honest men on both sides, when a political object is mingled with it, and they merely go for the purpose of ascertaining it with a view to the franchise, will differ when they really would not if they were calmly to exercise their judgment as valuators for the purpose of taxation. I think it is very hard; it is putting the person who is to judge of the real value into a most difficult dilemma very often. 630,5. You consider that persons that go upon the spur of the moment, as upon the occasion of a registry, do it probably hastily, and likewise do it under the bias to which you have referred ?— That is one reason, and there are others. In order to ascertain the value of a house, it has alw. ays been understood that it should be looked at very minutely, that the person should go into it; and one of the first inquiries always made is, " Were you in it r" But I think that, under the present circumstances of Ireland, any persons who wished to ascertain the value, for the purpose of checking an overvalue, would find it very difficult to get into houses ; an opportunity of ascertaining the value would scarcely be afforded to them, without some risk of personal conflict; and when it really comes to the difference between 8 I. and 10 I, it is impossible to determine it without going into the house, and viewing it in a very minute way, in so minute a way as would not be permitted. I think ah that would be avoided by what I have suggested, and many unpleasant contentions would be prevented. 6306. Upon the occasion of rating, for the purposes of the relief of the poor or the local taxation, would you allow a party to appeal if he was omitted from the valuation and thought he ought to be rated ?— My notion is, that payment 01 rate should be the prima facie test. If a party said or imagined that he had been undervalued, for the political purpose of excluding him from the registry, ne should be at liberty to appeal to the sessions, or any other tribunal thought more