238 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE TIIE am M, D. Meaghcr. that they were weavers and lived at Glasheen ?- And seeing them so often ; nlmnst sure that they were able to read. _ _ T , . T^ Ts. 5! But you arc not able to say positively?- No, I am not; 1 thought that when the affidavits were produced there might be some circumstance that 1 could bring to mind, but I cannot. < 5102 Does not that little experiment that has been made satisfy your mind of the o- reat impropriety of carrying on a process of swearing men to affidavits of thattodescription, and suffering them to subscribe as marksmen when they are literate persons?— It does not at all convince me of any impropriety. 5193. Does not it show you what an extreme difficulty there must be with reference to the identification ?— There may be a difficulty. 5194. Must not it open a door to perjury ?— I do not think so. 5195. Do you think that the law which punishes perjury is any protection against the commission of the crime ?— When there are three certificates upon the document, and three parties to it, I think that perjury would be easily found out. 5196. How would you convict the perjurer upon this?— There is not a certi- ficate of those that I would not swear in a court of justice that I read to the man, and that lie affixed his mark to it. 5197. To what man ?— To the man mentioned in it. 5198. How would you do that without knowing the man?— It would be the other party's business to bring up the man. I hold in my hand 90 documents, and there is not a single one of these upon which my signature appears that I would not, in a court of justice, swear that I did read it to that man, and that he affixed his mark to it. As to the identity of the man, that might be proved by other parties. 5199. How could any other person prove the identity of the man that you read it to ?— I do not know as to the legal point. 5200. This is no legal point, but a matter of common sense. How is it possi- ble that any other man except yourself, or somebody by at the transaction, could identify the individual to whom you read it, and whose name you signed ?— I know nothing of that. 5201. Do not you now see how extremely difficult it would be ?— I declare that, till I heard it from a lawyer, I thought it could be done, but now I find it is not so, I must submit to your better judgment. 5202. Mr. Lefroy.~\ Suppose that 87 of these men, of whom you have no recol- lection, came into this room, could you discern one from another, and say that is such a man, and that is such another man ?— I do not know whether I ' could at this distance of time. When Mr. Waggett was the returning officer, as the Recorder of Cork, I invariably wrote the certificates for them to facilitate the business, and he never said anything; and I thought if I was doing anything illegal, he would have stopped it. 5023. Do you mean to say that Mr. Waggett knew of your signing as for marksmen where the deponents could read ?— He might, or might not; I do not know. 5204. Do you mean to say that lie did in fact know it ?— I cannot take upon me to say ; but his clerks and people there about him must have seen it. 5205. Do you mean to say that any of the clerks or officers of his court knew the fact?— I know they did. 5206. Will you mention the names of any?— Tom Bustead knew it very well. 5207. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] Knew that you were signing the names for those men, they being able to read and write ?— Yes, he knew it. 5208. But there was not a more correct officer in the Queen's dominions than Bustead ?— Yes, and he knew that very well. 5209. Mr. Lefroy.] Is Bustead alive ?— No, he is not. 5210 Is there any living officer of Mr. Waggett's court amongst the multi- tude, who you say must have known of it, that you can name who did in fact know it.'— I do not believe there is ; Mr. Jones is dead, and so is Bustead. 5211. Mr Serjeant Jackson, to Mr. Colburn.-] What proportion of the affida- ™ V° T TTfZ haVe 70U looked over> 0llt of which you have selected these °° ked ° vert, he entire them, with the exception of about 700. j2i 2. \ V nat may be the number you have looked through ?— Three or four 5213- about 700 And you have selected all that appear signed by Mr. Meagher, except ) out of 4,000 ?— Yes. 5 1 5214. Have