SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. , 2JJ ^ j / J / j were nearly that number of 40,. freeholders, and they are every year dwindling , off ; hey cannot be revived and of course as they die the franchise dies with them 4615. Chairman.-] At the period at which you are now speakino- when Si class of voters amounted to , ,000, how many do you conceive the freemen amoun ed dI° te at ^ at period r- I daresay, taking them all, rich and poor, 5 March 1838. Bill, the freemen were there were 2,500 or near 3,000 freemen. 4616. You stated that formerly, before the Reform 2,500. and the freeholders 1,000?— Nearly 1,000. 4617. Then the influence of the freemen at that time was not quite so uncon trolled by the other constituency as upon the former occasion you seemed to state it was ?— The number of the freemen must always control the freeholders for the freeholders were a divided force and the freemen were a concentrated force; they generally went together. 4618. Do you mean to say that the freeholders were very much divided in their political opinions ?— In the way they voted, by influences, not as to their political opinions, being in the employment of parties who wished them to vote in a certain way. 4619. They were more so formerly than they are at present ?— Certainly. 4620. Why should there be that difference between the former influences and the present ?— Because the parties that renewed under the Reform Bill were a more independent class than those that did not renew. 4621. Do you mean to state that the present 40 s. freeholders are a worse class of freeholders than they were formerly ?— No, they are better, because the better part of them, upon an independent principle, came to register, and the others did not come to register; the parties that brought them before did not feel an interest in it then. 4622. You mean to say that the present 40 s. freeholders are an improved class to what they were before ?— I think they are ; I think a great number of the better part of them remain. 4623. You think there was corruption among the 40 s. freeholders in former times, but at present you think the corruption is entirely done away with regard to them ?— In a great measure, the household franchise being so overpowering. 4C24. You think it is no object to a party to poll 365 instead of 31 ?— Not compared with 1,796 householders. When I consider that there are 1,796 house- holders who voted at the last election, I think the influence of that number of divided interests in the 40 s. freeholders could not operate much to the prejudice of the party seeking the seat. 4625. You think it cannot make any great difference which way 396 out of a constituency of between 4,000 and 5,000 vote?— It is of consequence, but it is not of that consequence that it was formerly ; the important thing is the 1,796 house- holders and the 365 40 s. freeholders. I do not think it can be of that conse- quence among the constituency that it was formerly, when there was a reduced constituency, or at least the bulk of the constituency was formed out of the freemen. 4626. Not of the same consequence as 1,000 freeholders out ot 3,500 consti- tuency I think not; I cannot tell what the numbers were at that time, but I believe there were a good deal more; but I remember in 1812 that the consti- tuency, to influence the election, consisted of freemen and freeholders. 4627 Referring to that period, which of the classes were the most corrupt; ,7 f'mpn or the freeholders ?— The freemen, as a body, were the most the freemen corrupt 4628. Mr. Lefroy.] Were you rightly understood to say that the 4 © * Jree- Iders now are a better description of persons than before he Reform Bill - I think so; I think that out of the great mass of 40 freeholders those that ue registered are the better part of that class. Is there a single 40 freeholder now that was not a 40 freeholder^ 4029. the time of the Reform BiUP- The. a, ™ , „^ ^ to freehold is taken by transmission because where a party had a lease for lives, renewable for ever, register under the law. 4630. Do you mean to say that a 40 Do you know an instance of it ?- I think I ha*. known it ^ ^ registry; I thL the law admits it where there, , a ever; I think the successor being in possession in 1832 can re0ister ^ 0.46. D D 4 The successor is registered. 4631.