kio' ON THE LOCAL TAXATION OF THE CITY OF DUELIN. 73 Do you know of any other Act that has necessarily increased the grand jurv pre- Mr. sentments ?— The abolition of the custom which prevailed, that prisoners should Richard purdy. pay fees upon their acquittal, I understand has had the same eft'ect. v y Are you aware, whether those Acts make it imperative, or leave it discretional • Apnl'-) with the grand jury, to present for the amount of fees?— I understand it to be im- perative to present; but the jury have a discretionary power in finding the amount of those fees. Are you aware, whether it is imperative on the grand jury to present for the expenses incurred by that Act or not ?— It is imperative upon them to present, but the amount may be discretional. Would then the removal of the grand jury jurisdiction to the parishes, relieve them from the necessity of paying the fees to the officers, while the law remains as it is ?— Certainly not effectually; but I am satisfied that the discretionary power would, in such case, be of advantage to the city. To what extent do you think, removing the jurisdiction from the grand jury to the parishes, would lessen the expenses incurred in consequence of the Police Act ? •— In fees and salaries to officers, and in the amount of contracts, I conceive a con- siderable saving would also be made, if the citizens possessed the control which is at present in the grand jury. For the supply and the support of the prisoners ?— Yes. Do you know at what expense, upon an average, the prisoners are at present maintained in the city gaols ?— I have not in my recollection the expense of the Bridewell, but I believe the expense at Newgate is at present about ,5 d. per day. Do you know the lowest rate that the prison committee have reported, asthe daily sum applicable to the support of prisoners ?— Five- pence per day. In the course of your investigations, have you satisfied yourself, whether the sum allowed for the support of the prisoners in the city gaols of Dublin, exceeds or falls short of that sum ?— I drew my conclusions respecting the gross expense from comparison with other prisons. The question is this, whether in point of fact, the prisoners of Dublin are sup- ported at an expense greater or less than $ d. per day ?— I do not know. What is the number of prisoners, upon an average, confined in the gaols of the city of Dublin ?— On the 17th of October, there were 318 in Newgate. What is the average number in all the prisons ?— I cannot state. Then from your own knowledge, or your own inquiries, you are not able to answer the question ?— I can state the number in the prisons upon a certain day, from my own inquiries. By the Act of 50th of Geo. 3. fivepence per day is the minimum allowance for food alone ; fivepence a day, would make 7/. 12$. id. per annum, for food alone; do you happen to know what was the amount of the sums presented in the year 1822 for the support and maintenance of the prisoners in Dublin ?— Not without reference to documents already before the Committee. From the return it appears, that the sum total was 8,282/. for the support and all the incidents relating to the prisoners; then you are not able to say, either what the amount of the presentments was, what the number of the prisoners to be supported was, and yet you take upon you to say, that it was an extravagant allowance for that purpose ?— I have taken the liberty to say, that there were salaries, fees, and contracts made at an extravagant rate, which increased the amount of the presentment levies. You have stated, that a considerable reduction could be effected, if this power of taxation were restored to the parish committees ; upon your own knowledge, as you are at present informed, can you take upon yourself to form an opinion, whether the expense of the prisoners of the city of Dublin, under the Police Act, would be less than it has been, if the power were vested in the parishes instead of the grand jury ?— I think it would. Do you feel yourself qualified to form an opinion upon that subject?— I will give my reasons, if such is the wish of the Committee. Can you state, whether it would be more or less, than that unknown sum, if it were to be taxed by the parishes, and not by the grand jury ?— Without reference to the contracts, I could not « o into those particulars ; but if the Committee will give me a list of questions, I will furnish answers to them. You stated, that you compared the expenses of the Dublin prison with other prisons; what were those prisons?— Preston house of correction, Glasgow bridewell, Knutsford prison, Kilmainham gaol; and as to medical attendance and medicines, the County Dublin infirmary, Kilmainham gaol and the three prisons in London ; at 549. D the