12 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Are the people who supply those articles, generally speaking, the connections of John McMullen. the grand jury, and the near connections of the grand jury ?— They are almost uni- ^ formly so. ( 6 May.) the people who receive the necessaries supplied by contract, that is, the gaolers, & c. the connections of the grand jury ?— The gaolers of the Dublin gaols are all the connections of the grand jury. Are they not the people that must approve or disapprove of the articles sent in under the contracts ?— I believe the immediate approval or disapproval of the articles rests with the inspector. Then in consequence of the failure of the contracts, you were understood to say. that money was voted to the inspector to supply those articles himself?— I believe so, but I have no positive knowledge of the fact. You said, that the dissenting minister got about six or seven hundred pounds for his supply?— Large sums have been frequently voted to him in the presentments for furnishing clothing and necessaries for the gaols. There was no contract for them ?— I should suppose not. Do you know why there was no contract; were they advertised for contract?— I should suppose so. Are not the contracts regularly advertised for every grand jury?— I have already stated that I believe they are. You have stated that the gaolers of almost all the gaols in Dublin are generally • connections of the grand jury ; who is Mr. Frederick Bourne a connection of?— He is closely connected, by marriage, with Alderman Archer. Mr. Marston, who is he a connection of?— I am not aware of his connection with any member of the grand jury; Mr. Purden, the governor of bridewell, is son- in- law to Alderman Archer. Mr. Wilson, the deputy governor, how is he connected with any member of the corporation ?— I do not know ; Sheriff's Peer Wood is the governor of the sheriff's prison. Do you know what year Mr. Bourne was appointed gaoler at Newgate ?— I think about seven years ago. Can you undertake to say that he was appointed gaoler at the time Alderman Archer sat as a grand juror?— He is elected by the corporation where Mr. Archer's influence is very powerful. Then there is not any necessary connection between the appointment of a gaoler elected by the corporation, and the relationship of that gaoler to a grand juror?— Only in so far as the leading members of the corporation always form the grand juries; the Alderman in question serves very constantly. You have paid a great deal of attention to the grand jury cess in general ?— I have paid a good deal of attention to it, at the same time I consider the system so large and so complicated that it is almost impossible for any individual, who has other private pursuits to attend to, to make himself master of all its details. Has your attention enabled you to discover whether there is any, and what dif- ference between the grand jury system established by law in the city of Dublin, and those established in other parts of Ireland ?— There is in one instance a distinction, and I think a most important one; the grand juries of the county of Dublin are limited in the sums they present; the grand juries of the city, in many instances, not at all. That observation does not apply to the counties in general?— No, only to the county of Dublin. Has your experience enabled you to know, whether a great many of those charges which annually come before the grand jury, are not matters of necessity ?— I think that a large share of one of the largest sums that is presented for by the grand juries of the city of Dublin, is wholly unnecessary, that is, the fees to the clerks of the crown, and above all others, those to the clerks of the peace; I think the same observation applies to the medical expenses of the gaols. Can you undertake to state positively, that the answer which you have just given with respect to the clerks of the peace is borne out by the letter of the law ?— I cannot pretend to be a perfect judge of the law, but as far as I am informed and have read, it is not imperative on the grand juries to present the entire sums claimed by the clerks of the peace and of the crown; and I am certain that competent per- sons of the greatest respectability, would be found to discharge those duties for one third of the sums which the present town clerks receive. Do