12 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE T\[ r of the inspector and other officers?— It would account for large sums being dis- John McMullen, posed of by some of the officers of prisons. —- J Does not the legislature contemplate such a contingency ?— I suppose it may ; but ( 6 May.) I have never understood that the inspector is the person pointed out in that case. Does not the inspector account most rigidly to the grand jury for the expen- diture of every shilling?— I have no reason to doubt that he accounts to the grand jury ; but as to the severity of the scrutiny, I have great doubts. Is his salary presented by the grand jury until he has accounted for every sixpence of public money that passes through his hands?— I am not aware of the practice. Then the Committee are to understand from you, that you are not acquainted with the manner in which the business is done by the grand jury of the city of Dublin?— I am not much acquainted with the precise practice; I never served upon the grand jury. Did you ever serve upon the grand jury of the county ?— Never. Then you are not aware of the accuracy and attention with which grand jurors, upon their oaths, generally inquire into the expenditure of public money by the ser vants under their control?— I am not aware of it; I have often heard the want of such accuracy and attention complained of. Do you know any thing of any contract for bread ?— The present contractor for bread, is a person of the name of Rickard ; the supply was for many years in the hands of Mr. Isaac Manders, son ( as I am informed) to Alderman Manders, who is one of those who most frequently served upon the grand juries; in Michaelmas term 1817, both the names of Alderman Manders and Richard Manders, junior, appear on the list of the grand jury; and amongst the sums presented by them, I find 2,098/. 16s. 8</. to Isaac Manders for bread; at Michaelmas term 1818, the name of Richard Manders, junior, appears on the grand jury, and the present- ment for bread to Isaac Manders, amounts to 1,646/. 14 s. 1 d. Do you know how Mr. Rickard came to get the contract for the bread for the gaols ?— I do not precisely know ; I believe the change arose out of some observa- tions by the court of King's Bench, upon the uniform regularity with which some individual of Alderman Manders' family had the contract for a great number of years previously. Have not you heard, that it was because Mr. Rickard proposed at a lower rate?— I do not know any thing about the proposals. Was it not because a lower contract was offered than Mr. Manders's ?— I am not aware of the price at which the bread was supplied in that year, but the change was made, as I was informed, at the suggestion of the court of King's Bench; I was not present, but I have heard it very frequently stated, and I believe it. Was it not in consequence of an advertisement for contracts, that Mr. Rickard got it ?— I suppose that may have been one cause of it. Are you aware that the contracts for the prisons are not always taken that are advertised, that there are sometimes no proposals sent in ?— I am not accurately informed upon the subject, but I should not be at all surprised at it. You have stated, that a man of the name of Manders supplied the prisoners with bread for a number of years, whilst Alderman Manders's name appeared as grand juror, and you stated also, that he was succeeded by a man named Rickard ?— His immediate successor was, I believe, a Mr. Booth, and I believe the present contractor is Mr. Rickard. Have you, from your examination of those accounts, discovered whether the con- tract offered by Manders, was at a higher rate than that offered by Rickard ?— 1 have had no opportunity of making such examination. Then the Committee are to understand, that you have confined your observations to those terms in which the name of Manders appears as the contractor ?— I have stated already, that in other terms the contract was taken by a baker, Mr. Booth, and in another, by a Mr. Rickard; and I believe those three names comprise a great number of years. Then could not you, as you seem very accurate in your other calculations, easily have ascertained whether the contract by Manders was'not offered to the public upon as reasonable terms as that by his successor ?— The price of bread, in a great num- ber of years, must of course have very much fluctuated; and I suppose the price ot one year would afford no criterion to judge of the price of another. \ our objection is directed rather against the system, than against any particular individual?— It is. Are