252 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Thomas Ellis, Esq. a Member. ( 31 May.) interfere with the due discharge of their duties as a superintending committee over the prisoners or the contracts ?— Of course, people that have any other pursuits in private life, have all of them more or less to do. Several of them are police magistrates?— Police magistrates are frequently on the grand jury. Do you not conceive, that if a permanent superintending committee, so consti- tuted, were authorized to receive tenders for contracts, and to report those tenders for contracts to the grand jury for their determination, that it would be a better principle than leaving the whole to the grand jury themselves?— So far as it might remove suspicion, I think it would ; but in point of practical result, I am sure the present plan enjoys every advantage that that would, except that it is liable to cer- tain general suspicions which may influence particular individuals; under the pre- sent system the tenders are sent to the secretary before the grand jury are named or sworn, and they are by him laid before the grand jury, and from that moment no other contract is received. Having stated that under the present system of contracts, by which the grand jury are forced to accept of the lowest tenders, it has happened that the grand jury has been forced to contract at a higher rate than the market price, does it not strike you that there must be something wrong in the contract system ?— I cannot attri- bute the want of bidders, under the present system, to any fault in the system, but to some accidental cause ; in the case which has been referred to, there were but two offers, and the grand jury refused to accept of either of them till compelled by the judge. In that case, I happen to know that the bad quality of the potatoes was detected by the inspector, and the grand jury availed themselves of that, to supply the prisons at a much lower price ; the contractor has not to this hour re- ceived one farthing on account of what he did deliver, inasmuch as the inspector refused to certify his accounts. It having been stated in evidence to this Committee, that at the time the lowest tender made to the grand jury for potatoes was at 6 /. a ton, that the market price in Dublin at that period was under 41, must there not have been something de- fective in the system of receiving tenders, which led to such a result?— I cannot conceive any possible cause existing in the system of receiving proposals; and as I said before, I believe that to have been purely accidental. You have stated, that two proposals were made for that article; are you aware how many proposals have been, at any one time, received for the supply of any one article ?— I never, personally, have ; but they are all read in open court before any contract is approved of; whether they consist of one, two, or twenty, they are laid before the judge upon oath. Do you conceive that the King's Bench can exercise more than a formal control over matters of such intricacy and detail, as the internal management of the prisons and the supply of contracts?— The management of the prisons is entirely beyond their functions; the supply of contracts, in themselves, include no intricacy; in point of fact, I do not believe the King's Bench would minutely examine those con- tracts, unless their attention was called to it; but when it is open to all the citizens of Dublin to call their attention to it, I feel that the court are quite justified, when their attention is not particularly called to it, in not minutely examining into it. There is no power of objecting, in the way of traverse, to any contract?— None. Do you not conceive that it would be an improvement in the law, as it now stands, if the remedy by traverse which is afforded to presentments, should also be extended to contracts?— I feel it would be impossible; for while it was contesting, the different supplies would be totally wanting to the prisoners; for instance, the contract for bread; while the traverse was being tried, the prisoners might starve. Is not the trial of a traverse, in the instance of the county presentments, imme- diate ?— No, not till the next sittings. If the law required all contracts to be laid before the court in the commencement of the term, and then admitted a traverse, in case of any imputed or alleged unfair- ness in the contract, do not you think that that would afford a check to the present contract system?— In point of fact, I do believe it is done so. If there were a traverse triable at once, and going to the fairness or unfairness of the contract, do you not think that it would afford an advantageous check to the contract system ?— I think it would ; but in any system of that sort the law must be altered, so that it should not be imperative on the grand jury to take the lowest - offer, however high that may be You