2jf> MINUTES QV EVTDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Then the Committee are to understand, that your knowledge is all derived from the information of others, and not from yourself being concerned in the trade?— My knowledge of the hay- market is not as a seller, but as a buyer. A buyer for your own consumption ?— Yes. Then so far as your personal knowledge goes, every inhabitant in the city of Dublin that keeps a horse has the same opportunity of knowing it that you have?— Yes, they would, if they had taken the same pains that I have taken to get infor- mation. Then the superiority of your information over that of other persons purchasing hay for their own use, arises entirely from the inquiries you have made, and the information you have got from the hay- factors?— Yes, and occasionally going there myself. Do you know how hay was sold some time back ?— Yes; the hay came to market formerly in loads, made up at4i hundred weight each. How is it sold now ?— It is sold in loads of different weights. They are upon cars, loaded according to the fancy of the owner ?— Yes. Do you conceive that that change has had any effect upon the average price of hay sold in the hay- market of Dublin?— I dare say it would; I'am inclined to think it would. Has it already had any effect?— Yes, I think it has. What has that effect been ?— To some inconsiderable extent; it has had some effect in enhancing the charge. What effect has it had upon the price of hay?— I cannot say the precise amount. Has it been to lower it, or raise it?— To raise it. You think the price of hay is higher now than it was when the loads were four hundredweight and a quarter each?— I think it is; and my reason for thinking so is this, because the charges upon the article are now greater than they were, the farmer is therefore obliged to sell at a greater price, in order to have the same sum of money that he formerly had. Then as a buyer of hay yourself, in point of fact have you purchased hay at a dearer or cheaper rate since the change ?— I have not, in my recollection, the exact price that I paid before, and that I pay now. Then if you cannot tell whether you pay higher or lower, how is it possible for you to know whether the price of hay has been raised or lowered by the change ?— I cannot say of my own knowledge that the price is higher or lower now than it was before, but I consider the price of hay would be lower now than it is if it was subject to less expense, as formerly. You have said in a former answer that the present regulations have had the effect of raising the price ; you now answer that you cannot say of your own knowledge that the charge is higher or lower than it formerly was; how do you reconcile those two answers; do you think they are perfectly consistent?— I do, on these grounds, that the increase of charge creates an increase of price; and if it was subject to less charge, it would be sold for a less sum of money than it is sold for; and therefore if it was subject to less charges than it is, that it would be sold for less money; and therefore the additional charge that the farmer is now obliged to pay is laid upon the price of hay. Then do you think that the change has had the effect of bringing hay into Dublin market from a greater distance than it formerly came ?— I do not know as to that. When instead of one horse drawing one load he draws three, four, or five loads, do you think the charge is calculated to save horse and cart- hire in bringing loads to market?— No doubt of it. If one horse and car now brings as much as three horses and cars formerly brought, must not the necessary effect be to save two horses out of every three that come to market?— No doubt of it. What is the usual value set upon a horse and car for a day in Dublin ?— I do not know ; horses and cars are not generally hired by the day; but are paid at fixed rates for the work they do; I believe the average value of horse and car- labour in the county of Dublin for a day; is about 3 s. 6d. I have myself paid as high as 4s. Then in point of fact, upon thecarriage of thirteen hundred weight of hay, there is a saving in point of carriage of 7 s. to 8 s. upon the load?— According to that calcula- tion, however, a different kind of car and harness is used to carry the present load. In point of fact, is not the hire of all horses and cars the same, without reference to the description of horse?— I think a very indifferent horse would not be able to ? do