! Major James Palmer. K J s( i9 GAOLS WERE 14S MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE djl". ON WHAT GROUNDS ?— ON THE GROUNDS, I BELIEVE, OF HIS BEING EXCOMMUNICATED BY HIS OWN CHURCH, OR BEING SUSPENDED. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER MR. MORRISSY IS THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CURATE OF THAT PARISH ?— I BELIEVE HE IS NOT. WHAT IS THE PROVISION OF THE LAW WITH RESPECT TO THE APPOINTMENT OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHAPLAIN, SUPPOSING THE OFFICE TO BE VACANT?— THE PROVISION OF THE LAW IS, THAT THE RECTOR OR CURATE OF > THE PARISH SHOULD BE THE CHAPLAIN, UNLESS THERE IS SOME- THING AGAINST HIS CHARACTER. MR. MORRISSY, AS FAR AS IN HIM LIES, ATTENDS THE PRISON, AND PERFORMS THE DUTIES OF HIS STATION?— CERTAINLY; I THINK HE IS AN ATTENTIVE OFFICER. HOW FAR HE DOES THE DUTY AGREEABLE TO HIS OWN ARCHBISHOP'S DIRECTIONS, IS ANOTHER AFFAIR ; BUT HE ATTENDS REGULARLY. BUT, AS A SUSPENDED CHAPLAIN, YOU KNOW THAT MANY OF THE PRISONERS HAVE MADE • OBJECTIONS TO ATTENDING HIS RELIGIOUS INSTRUCTIONS ?— YES, MANY COMPLAINTS HAVE COME TO US ON THAT GROUND. DO YOU KNOW WHY HE HAS BEEN SUSPENDED ?— NO I DO NOT. WHO IS THE PRESBYTERIAN CLERGYMAN OF THE PRISON ?— DOCTOR HORNER. FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE OF THE PRISONERS OF DUBLIN, DO YOU CONCEIVE THE APPOINT- MENT OF A PRESBYTERIAN OR DISSENTING MINISTER IS NECESSARY FOR THOSE PRISONS?— I THINK THERE ARE VERY FEW PRESBYTERIANS IN GAOL; BUT UNDER THE PRESENT CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE DUBLIN GAOLS, THE PROTESTANT CHAPLAIN BEING A VERY OLD MAN, AND HAVING INFINITELY - MORE TO DO THAN HE CAN WELL PERFORM, I DO CONSIDER THAT DOCTOR HORNER HAS BEEN VERY USEFUL. THEN YOU CONSIDER THE GREAT UTILITY OF DOCTOR HORNER TO CONSIST RATHER IN HIS ACT- ING FOR THE PROTESTANT CHAPLAIN OF THE ESTABLISHMENT, THAN FOR ANY DUTIES SPECIFICALLY • IMPOSED UPON HIM ?— YES, I HAVE KNOWN HIM TO DO SO WITH ADVANTAGE; AND I WOULD ADD, THAT I THINK ONE PROTESTANT CHAPLAIN TO THE GAOLS OF DUBLIN IS NOT SUFFICIENT; THE PRESENT ONE IS A VERY OLD MAN ; BUT EVEN WERE HE A YOUNG MAN, I THINK, IF HE DID • HIS DUTY FULLY, HE HAS MORE TO DO THAN HE CAN DO WELL, UNLESS THE UNITED. DO YOU CONCEIVE, THAT, UNDER THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE CITY GRAND JURIES, THE CONTRACT SYSTEM CAN BE CARRIED INTO EFFECT WITH ECONOMY TO THE PUBLIC ?— I THINK IT COULD BE BETTER DONE ON AN IMPROVED PRACTICE, SUCH AS I HAVE BEFORE RECOMMENDED. DO YOU THINK, THAT, IF ANY PUBLIC OFFICE, SUCH AS THE HEAD OFFICE OF POLICE, WERE AUTHORIZED TO RECEIVE TENDERS FOR ALL CONTRACTS, AND TO LAY THOSE TENDERS BEFORE THE GRAND JURY, ANY CHECK OF THE PUBLIC OFFICE SO INTERPOSED, WOULD ENSURE A FAIRER ADMI- NISTRATION OF THE CONTRACT SYSTEM ?— I THINK IT WOULD PROBABLY PRODUCE MORE ECONOMY, THAT IS CHEAPER CONTRACTS BY A GREATER COMPETITION COMING FORWARD. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY DIFFERENCE OF DELIVERY BETWEEN THE ARTICLES REALLY GIVEN AND THE ARTICLES CONTRACTED FOR BY SAMPLE IN THE DUBLIN PRISONS ?— FREQUENT COMPLAINTS HAVE BEEN MADE TO ME, OF THE INFERIOR QUALITY OF THE PROVISIONS, ESPECIALLY IN POTATOES. HAVE ANY COMPLAINTS BEEN MADE TO YOU OF THE INFERIOR QUALITIES OF BLANKETS AND OTHER ARTICLES FURNISHED BY CONTRACT?— NO COMPLAINTS HAVE BEEN MADE TO ME. HAVE YOU EVER COMPLAINED OF BLANKETS DELIVERED IN BY SAMPLE UPON WHICH THE CONTRACT WAS FOUNDED ?— NO, I HAVE NOT; BUT I HAVE INSPECTED THE BLANKETS AT MY ANNUAL INSPECTION, AS I WAS BOUND TO DO, AND I THOUGHT THEM SUFFICIENTLY GOOD. WITHOUT REFERENCE TO PRICE OR PATTERN ?— YES. WHO IS THE KEEPER OF THE PRISON AT NEWGATE ?— A MR. BOURNES. DOES HE HOLD ANY OTHER OFFICE BESIDES THAT OF KEEPER OF NEWGATE ?— I DO NOT KNOW. DOES HE RESIDE IN THE PRISON ?— HE DOES ; THERE IS A BUILDING IN THE REAR OF IT FOR HIM. CAN YOU INFORM THE COMMITTEE, WHAT IS THE NEW SYSTEM OF CLASSIFICATION WHICH HAS BEEN ADOPTED BY GOVERNMENT IN DUBLIN, IN PURSUANCE OF THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE INSPECTORS GENERAL?— PRISONERS SENTENCED TO SIX MONTHS CONFINEMENT AND UPWARDS UNDER THE PROCLAMATION, GO TO THE RICHMOND BRIDEWELL, THOSE UNDER SIX MONTHS, EXCEPT BOYS, REMAIN AT NEWGATE, THE BOYS ARE TRANSFERRED TO SMITHFIELD PENITENTIARY, THE FEMALE CONVICTS ARE TO GO TO SMITHFIELD PENITENTIARY, WHEN CELLS ARE PREPARED FOR THEM, AND THE MALE CONVICTS FOR BOTANY BAY, REMAIN IN NEWGATE TILL EMBARKED, WHICH LATTER CLASS I CONSIDER VERY INJURIOUS TO THE DISCIPLINE OF NEW- GATE OR ANY GAOL. ARE TLIEY EMBARKED VERY SOON AFTER SENTENCE IS PRONOUNCED, OR DOES ANY CONSI- DERABLE DELAY OCCUR ?— CONSIDERABLE DELAYS HAVE OCCURRED IN ALL PARTS OF IRELAND. DOES NOT THE CONTINUANCE OF THE CONVICTS IN GAOL AFTER SENTENCE PRONOUNCED, MATERIALLY