2O8 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Major James Palmer. \ ^— ' ( 27 May.) CHOSEN THAT LOWEST TENDER ; IF THAT INDIVIDUAL HAS THE POWER OF GOING INTO COURT, AND TO HEAR THE DIFFERENT CONTRACTS READ OVER TO HIM, SUPPOSING HE HAS OFFERED TO BE A CONTRACTOR, HAS HE NOT THE POWER OF JUDGING FAIRLY AND OPENLY IN COURT, WHETHER HIS OWN OFFER WAS THE LOWEST OR NOT ?— I THINK SO; BUT THAT IS NOT THE CIRCUMSTANCE I ALLUDE TO. IF SUCH IS THE CASE, AND IF THERE IS NO INSTANCE OF HAVING RECOURSE TO SUCH REDRESS, DOES IT NOT NATURALLY APPEAR, THAT THERE IS NO INSTANCE WHATEVER OF UNDUE PREFERENCE?— I THINK IT WOULD APPEAR SO; I CERTAINLY COULD PROVE NO ABUSE; AND IF IT EXISTS, IT MAY BE AMONGST CONTRACTORS THEMSELVES, AND BE BEYOND THE CONTROL OF THE GRAND JURY. WILL YOU STATE ANY PROBABLE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT YOU THINK MIGHT INTERFERE ?— THE CIRCUMSTANCE THAT I WOULD SUPPOSE MIGHT INTERFERE, IS THIS; IN A LARGE CITY, WHERE THE CITIZENS HAVE SO CONSTANTLY COMPLAINED OF UNFAIR DEALINGS WITH RESPECT TO THE CONTRACTS, IT MIGHT ARISE FROM THIS, THAT CERTAIN PERSONS WILL NOT COME FORWARD TO OFFER FOR CONTRACTS, FROM A WISH NOT TO INTERFERE WITH OTHER CONTRACTORS WHO HAVE GENERALLY HAD THE CONTRACT; THAT THERE IS NOT THAT COMPETITION, THOUGH IT IS FULLY LEFT OPEN BY THE ADVERTISEMENTS. IS THAT THE USUAL COURSE OF BUSINESS IN A LARGE COMMERCIAL TOWN LIKE DUBLIN; MUST THERE NOT BE MANY THOUSAND PERSONS ANXIOUS TO GET A TRIFLING PROFIT FROM A CONTRACT WITH A PUBLIC BODY, WHERE PAYMENT IS CERTAIN ?— I DO NOT MEAN TO SAY, THAT IT IS THE CASE; I ONLY STATE, I CAN SUPPOSE THAT THERE IS NOT A FAIR COMPETITION FOR IT, INASMUCH AS A PERSON WHO MIGHT DESIRE THAT PROFIT, WOULD NOT COME FORWARD, AS IT WOULD BE AN INTERFERENCE WITH PERSONS WHO GENERALLY POSSESS THAT CONTRACT. WILL THE WITNESS ASSENT TO THIS PROPOSITION, THAT ONE FACT IS WORTH A THOUSAND, COMPLAINTS?— I THINK SO; FOR ANY THING I KNOW IT MAY BE A MOST UNJUST ACCU- SATION. IS IT NOT FAIR TO PRESUME THAT IF PERSONS HAVE HEARD A THOUSAND COMPLAINTS OF ABUSE IN SUPPLYING THE PRISONS BY CONTRACT, AND THEY HAVE NOT BEEN FAVOURABLE TO ONE SINGLE FACT; IS IT NOT FAIR TO PRESUME THAT THE COMPLAINTS ON THAT SUBJECT ARE RATHER UNJUST ?— I THINK SO. WOULD IT NOT APPEAR, IF THE CONTRACTS HAD VERY GENERALLY GONE TO AN INDIVIDUAL CONNECTED IN SOME WAY WITH THE GRAND JURY, WOULD YOU NOT CONCLUDE THAT THERE HAD BEEN SOME SHARE OF PARTIALITY WITH REGARD TO SUCH INDIVIDUAL, WHICH WOULD CREATE SOME SUSPICION IN THE MINDS OF THE CITIZENS ?— I THINK SO; IF IT APPEARED THAT A RELATION OF A GRAND JUROR GENERALLY GOT THE CONTRACT, IT WOULD GIVE CAUSE FOR SUSPICION. BUT THAT MIGHT BE UNFOUNDED ?— IT MIGHT. DO YOU THINK, FROM YOUR ACQUAINTANCE WITH THE PRISONS THROUGHOUT IRELAND, THAT THE CONTRACT SYSTEM CAN EVER BE ADMINISTERED WITH ENTIRE PRUDENCE OR ECONOMY BY A BODY WHO ONLY ACT IN A HURRIED MANNER LIKE THE GRAND JURY, ENCUMBERED WITH CRIMINAL BUSINESS?— I THINK IT DOES CREATE CONSIDERABLE DIFFICULTY IN ALL PARTS OF IRELAND. HAVE YOU ANY HESITATION OR DOUBT IN AFFIRMING WHETHER, IF THERE WAS A SUPERIN- TENDING COMMITTEE APPOINTED FOR A PRISON, RECEIVING PROPOSALS OPENLY AND DECIDING UPON THE LOWEST BIDDER, AND THE MOST SOLVENT SECURITY THAT A CONTRACT SYSTEM MIGHT NOT BE INTRODUCED OF MORE ECONOMY TO THE PUBLIC THAN CAN BE ADMINISTERED THROUGH THE MEDIUM OF ANY GRAND JURY ?— I DO THINK SO ; A CONSIDERABLE ADVANTAGE WOULD ARISE, NOT ONLY TO THE COUNTRY BUT TO DUBLIN, BY A COMMITTEE OF THAT NATURE, IF WELL CHOSEN; THEY WOULD HAVE THE ENTIRE SIX MONTHS BETWEEN EACH ASSIZES OR TERM, NOT ONLY TO PROPOSE CONTRACTS, BUT TO MAKE SUCH ALTERATIONS AS THEY MIGHT RECOMMEND TO BE LAID BEFORE THE GRAND JURY FOR APPROVAL; THE CONTRACTS ARE AT PRESENT FOR HALF A YEAR, SO THAT THE INTERMEDIATE GRAND JURY OF DUBLIN COULD NOT ALTER THEM IN ANY WAY WHATEVER. CAN YOU SUGGEST ANY IMPROVEMENT IN THE SYSTEM OF CONTRACTS ?— I WOULD SUGGEST, WITH RESPECT TO DUBLIN, THAT THE HEAD POLICE MAGISTRATES, WHO ARE OFFICERS OF THE CROWN, SHOULD, WITH THE GRAND JURY COMMITTEE, RECEIVE AND APPROVE OF ALL CONTRACTS FOR FOOD, NECESSARIES AND BUILDINGS, PREVIOUS TO BEING SENT TO THE GRAND JURY TO BE PASSED.