• ON THE LOCAL TAXATION OF THE CITY OF DUBLIN, 319 YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE EXPENSES OF THE MEDICAL ESTABLISHMENT OF MADAM Major STEPHENS' ARE?— I DO NOT RECOLLECT. James Palmer. THE MADAM STEPHENS' HOSPITAL MUST BE THROWN OUT OF THE COMPARISON WITH NEW- V ^ GATE ?— WITH THIS DIFFERENCE, THAT PURCHASING THEIR OWN MEDICINES AND COMPOUNDING 27 THEM THEMSELVES, THERE MUST BE A VERY GREAT SAVING IN PLACE OF A BILL COMING FROM AN APOTHECARY. HAVE THERE BEEN ANY LATE ALTERATIONS IN THE WAY OF BUILDINGS OR ARCHITECTURAL CHANGES IN THE DUBLIN PRISONS, SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN ACQUAINTED WITH THEM ?— THERE HAVE BEEN ADDITIONAL CELLS ERECTED IN RICHMOND BRIDEWELL, BUT I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY MATERIAL ALTERATION EXCEPT THAT. ARE YOU ENABLED TO STATE TO THE COMMITTEE, WHETHER THOSE ALTERATIONS HAVE BEEN CARRIED ON AN ECONOMICAL PRINCIPLE, OR WHETHER THEY HAVE LED TO ANY UNNECESSARY EX- PENSE ?— I AM QUITE UNPREPARED TO ANSWER THAT, INASMUCH AS 1 REALLY DO NOT KNOW WHO IS THE CONTRACTOR, OR WHAT WERE THE SPECIFICATIONS AND AGREEMENT. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY CELLS THERE ARE IN NEWGATE AT THIS MOMENT [ A plan handed to witness] ?— THIS IS ACCURATE, I HAVE NO DOUBT. ARE THERE THIRTY- SIX?— YES. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THERE HAVE BEEN SINCE THE PASSING OF THE ACT AGAINST FEES, ANY FEES CHARGED OR RECEIVED, WHETHER AS FEES, OR IN THE SHAPE OF RENTS, IN THE DUB- LIN PRISONS ?— THERE HAVE BEEN ; BUT MAJOR WOODWARD AND I CONCEIVED IT RIGHT, IN CONSEQUENCE OF THAT, TO REPRESENT IT TO THE COURT OF KING'S BENCH; AND WITHIN THE LAST TWO MONTHS, THE JUDGES OF THE KING'S BENCH CALLED THE GOVERNORS OF THE GAOLS, WHO HAD CONTINUED THE PRACTICE BEFORE THEM, AND DIRECTED THEM TO DO SO NO MORE, HAVING CONSIDERED THAT THE ABOLITION OF FEES EXTENDED EVEN TO THE RENTS OF ROOMS. DID THE GAOLERS TAKE IT AS RENTS OR AS FEES ?— THEY DO NOT CONSIDER THEM AS FEES, WE DID CONSIDER THEM SO, AND SUBMITTED IT FOR THE DECISION OF THE COURT OF KING'S BENCH; BUT IN CONSEQUENCE OF THE GAOLER OF THE SHERIFF'S PRISON HAVING NO SALARY, BUT THE RENTS OF THE ROOMS, THE JUDGES MADE NO ORDER ON THE SUBJECT IN THAT PRISON, UNTIL THEY HAD CONSIDERED FURTHER WHAT REMEDY COULD BE HAD. THE ORDER OF THE JUDGES HAS BEEN ABSOLUTE WITH REGARD TO THE OTHER PRISONS ?— CERTAINLY. HAS IT BEEN COMPLIED WITH ?— I HAVE NO REASON TO DOUBT IT. HAD YOU AT ANY TIME REMONSTRATED WITH THE GOVERNORS OF THE SEVERAL PRISONS, AGAINST CHARGING RENTS PRIOR TO THIS APPLICATION TO THE COURT ?— CERTAINLY, WE DID; BUT WE WERE NOT CLEAR OURSELVES THAT THE ABOLITION OF FEES EXTENDED TO THE RENT OF ROOMS, TILL WE APPLIED TO THE COURT OF KING'S BENCH. HAVING MENTIONED THE SHERIFF'S PRISON, WILL YOU INFORM THE COMMITTEE AS TO THE STATE OF THAT PRISON; ARE YOU ACQUAINTED WITH IT ?— YES, PERFECTLY. STATE WHAT IS ITS CONDITION ?— THE SITUATION OF THE SHERIFF'S PRISON HAS BEEN CON- SIDERABLY IMPROVED SINCE THE APPOINTMENT OF MR. WOOD AS GOVERNOR OR KEEPER, BOTH IN CLEANLINESS AND ORDER. DO YOU THINK IN ANY NEW ARRANGEMENT OF THE DUBLIN PRISONS, THE SHERIFF'S PRISON WOULD BE UNITED WITH ANY OTHER, OR ANY OTHER ALTERATION MADE, WHICH WOULD LEAD TO A BETTER ARRANGEMENT FOR THE PUBLIC?— MAJOR WOODWARD AND I WERE CLEARLY OF OPINION, THAT IF ALL THE DEBTORS COULD BE CONGREGATED TOGETHER IN THE MAR- SHALSEA OF THE FOUR COURTS, SO AS TO BE IN ONE PRISON, THAT CONSIDERABLE ECONOMY AND GOOD ORDER MIGHT BE THE RESULT. DO NOT YOU THINK IT A BAD PRINCIPLE TO ALLOW INSOLVENTS TQ BE REMANDED BACK TO PRISON WHERE COMMON DEBTORS RESIDE, THOSE INSOLVENTS WHO ARE REMANDED FOR FRAUD ? — YES, I DO. YOU STATE THAT THERE HAS BEEN A GEAT IMPROVEMENT SINCE MR. WOOD HAS BEEN AP- POINTED GOVERNOR, ARE YOU AWARE WHAT THE EMOLUMENT OF MR. WOOD IS, AS KEEPER OF THE SHERIFF'S PRISON ?— I BELIEVE HIS EMOLUMENTS BY THE ABOLITION OF THE RENT OF ROOMS AND FEES, IF PUT IN FORCE IN THAT PRISON, WOULD LEAVE HIM NOTHING; IF THE LAW IS PUT IN FORCE HE WILL HAVE NOTHING. WOULD HE NOT HAVE CERTAIN EXPENSES, AND BE OUT OF POCKET IF THE RENT OF ROOMS AND FEES BEING ABOLISHED WERE RIGOROUSLY ENFORCED IN THAT PRISON; WOULD HE NOT BE AT THE EXPENSE OF WHITE WASHING WITHOUT A FARTHING REMUNERATION ?— HE WOULD BE A LOSER. ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE SHERIFF'S PRISON IS REPAIRED BY THE GRAND JURY PRESENTMENT ? — SINCE THE ACT OF THE LAST SESSION, THE GRAND JURY HAVE OFTEN ALLOWED DIET TO THE PAUPER DEBTORS AT OUR SUGGESTION ; BUT HOW THE PRISON WAS REPAIRED PREVIOUS TO THAT, I KNOW NOT. 549. 3 F Do