MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Major Is the plan which you have in theory formed, founded on your own opinion, cor- James Palmer, rected by the advice to which you had recourse ?— Certainly. ^ J Have you examined the medical expenses of the prisons of the city of Dublin, with ( 27 May.) the medical expenses of other prisons?— We have; but I am not prepared, not being expected to be called on, to give a detailed account of it; but I am fully pre- pared I hope to give a general view of the plan we would propose. The opinions you have formed, are not only grounded on your own observations on the prisons of Dublin and the advice you may have received from other quarters of high authority, but also from your view of other prisons ?— A comparative view as to expenses, but not as to practice ; for the practice in Dublin is the same as the practice in county gaols ; they are all under the Act of Parliament. Will you state to the Committee what are the alterations which you would be inclined to recommend?— The alterations we propose are grounded on our view that a general hospital in one of the prisons in Dublin for the sick of all, would in many cases tend to the benefit of prison discipline, and in no case do mischief; the result of that arrangement being carried into execution, would be in the first instance, giving much more room in the other crowded prisons of Dublin ; it would procure in our opinion, a much greater attention at all hours to the sick, than can be paid now; for we consider that one medical man for all the prisons of Dublin, has more than he can well do , exclusive of the advantage which we consider would arise from a re- sident medical man in such an hospital; we also consider that economy with respect to the medicine would arise to a large amount, by compounding it in the prison ; and we have been drawn to this conclusion by a very minute view of the hospital arrange- ments of Dublin, and other departments, such as Madam Stephen's hospital, and such as the hospital attached to the house of industry ; with the details of which I was myself particularly accquainted as being governor. For how long?— A year and a half I was sole governor under the new Act of Parliament; the practice in the hospitals of Dublin is to have a resident apothe- cary, and to purchase the medicines at Apothecaries Hall, which are compounded by this apothecary in the hospitals, all which we would apply to the prison hospital: we would add the residence of one medical man who should be both surgeon and physician, as most of the surgeons of Dublin are; we considered it our duty in proposing this plan, to lay aside all feelings for local interests, presuming, as a matter of course, that that would be provided for elsewhere, but, that our duty in proposing a plan was entirely to keep our eyes fixed on the object of benefit to the department over which we were placed; with this view we would propose, that a resident surgeon, who should be a physician also, should be placed at the Rich- mond bridewell, where we apprehend there is abundance of hospital room for all the sick of the gaols of Dublin; and we consider a surgeon of character could be procured for a salary of 300/. per annum. At what place would you propose to fix this hospital ?— At the Richmond bridewell. Do you not apprehend there would be some inconvenience from the removal of prisoners from Newgate, and the debtor prisoners to the distance of Richmond bridewell ?— That had not escaped us; I apprehend it would be as easy as removing persons who are sick in Dublin, in a cart from the most distant parts to the hospitals, it might require the attendance of constables or military, as all removals of prisoners do. Under an improved arrangement, you conceive that one medical officer resident and one resident apothecary, would be competent to the discharge of the medical duties connected with the prisons?— I think so; if a medical man was appointed who was not at the head of his profession in Dublin. Do you conceive, at present, that it would be expedient to place as such officer, a medical gentleman who was engaged in the head of the profession ?— It would not be expedient, on the contrary, I think that a young practitioner, qualified, would give more of his time than the other could possibly do, in fact, he would be there at all hours. Have you considered at all what possible reduction would take place in the expense of medicine, by the alterations you have suggested?— We did enter minutely into such a calculation, but I have not the paper with me; I can state, however, that to the best of my recollection, we considered the saving between salary and medicines, would amount to somewhere about 1,000/. per annum; I may be wrong, but I can send to Major Woodward to forward to the Committee that document. Are