a n^ wq ON THE LOCAL TAXATION OF THE CITY OF DUBLIN.. 159 IN WHAT PARTICULARS WAS THAT PROVISION OF THE LAW VIOLATED OR . NEGLECTED ?— THE GOVERNOR WAS IN THE HABIT OF RENTING ROOMS IN THAT PART OF THE PRISON THAT WAS ALLOTTED TO DEBTORS, TO SUCH CRIMINALS AS COULD PAY FOR THEM; I DO NOT SAY IN ALL CASES, FOR ' THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOME RECOMMENDATION FROM OTHER QUARTERS FOR WHAT I KNOW. I AM IGNORANT OF THAT, BUT FREQUENTLY I FOUND CRIMINALS IN THAT PART OF DIE PRISON PAYING FOR THE ROOMS, THEREFORE I PRESUME IT WAS IN PROPORTION TO THEIR CAPACITY TO PAY. WILL YOU STATE ANY PARTICULAR INSTANCES ?— THE INSTANCES I ALLUDE TO WAS VERY SOON AFTER MY APPOINTMENT; AT ONE PERIOD OF VISITING NEWGATE, MAJOR WOODWARD AND I DISCOVERED IN THE DEBTORS ROOMS THE CARPENTERS, WHO WERE CONFINED IN THE CASE OF MR. CARDLANE, A MASTER CARPENTER, AND IT WAS NOT DENIED THAT THE PRISONERS PAID FOR THE ACCOMMODATION ; THE GOVERNOR DID NOT CONSIDER IT WRONG I IMAGINE. WAS THAT A CASE OF COMBINATION ?— I THINK IT WAS. HAVE YOU HEARD, AND DO YOU BELIEVE, THAT IN THIS CASE OF COMBINATION, THAT IT OCCURS IN IRELAND VERY FREQUENTLY FOR A PROVISION TO BE MADE FOR THE MAINTENANCE OF THE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS APPREHENDED BY THOSE CONNECTED WITH HIM IN THE CONSPIRACY OUT OF DOORS ?— I HAVE HEARD SO, BUT I DO NOT KNOW IT OTHERWISE. ARE THE COMMITTEE TO UNDERSTAND FROM THE EVIDENCE WHICH YOU HAVE GIVEN, THAT THIS CHARGE OF RENT FOR ROOMS AT THE DEBTORS SIDE OF THE PRISON, AS MADE AGAINST CRI- MINALS, THAT THE KEEPER OF THE PRISON HAD A DIRECT INTEREST IN THE VIOLATION OF THE LAW; THAT HE RECEIVED A PECUNIARY COMPENSATION FOR THE VIOLATION OF THE LAW?— I THINK HE HAD ; BUT I AM NOT OF OPINION THAT HE WAS AWARE THAT HE WAS VIOLATING THE LAW. DID YOU SEE ANY OTHER CASE OF A SIMILAR NATURE ?— I DID ; BUT I CANNOT CALL TO MIND THE PARTICULAR CASE, BUT IT FREQUENTLY OCCURRED, AND WAS ADMITTED TO BE SO. IS THERE NOT AN INSPECTOR APPOINTED FOR THAT PRISON ?— THERE IS ONE LOCAL INSPEC- TOR FOR ALL THE PRISONS IN DUBLIN, AND HIS DUTY IS VERY ARDUOUS. YOU ARE THE CHIEF OFFICER, YOU AND MAJOR WOODWARD, OF THE DEPARTMENT IN IRELAND, AND AS SUCH YOU RECEIVE REPORTS FROM THE LOCAL INSPECTORS IN IRELAND, DO YOU NOT ? — WE DO. HAVE YOU TURNED YOUR MIND TO THE DUTIES WHICH ARE REQUIRED TO BE PERFORMED BY THE LOCAL INSPECTORS BY LAW OF PRISONS GENERALLY?— CERTAINLY, I HAVE. DO YOU CONCEIVE IT TO BE THE DUTY OF THE LOCAL INSPECTOR OF A PRISON, TO SEE THAT THE REGULATIONS OF THE LAW ARE CARRIED INTO FULL EFFECT IN THE PRISON, FOR WHICH HE IS APPOINTED TO ACT ?— I THINK SO, I SHOULD CONSIDER HIS PLACE USELESS WITHOUT IT, OR AS NEARLY USELESS. HAVE YOU RECEIVED ANY REPORTS OFFICIALLY FROM THE LOCAL INSPECTOR OF THE DUBLIN PRISONS, SINCE YOUR APPOINTMENT ?— FREQUENTLY. DID THAT LOCAL INSPECTOR EVER REPRESENT TO YOU THE VIOLATION OF THE LAW WHICH TOOK PLACE IN THIS IMPORTANT POINT OF THE ADMIXTURE OF CRIMINAL PRISONERS AND DEBTORS ?— I THINK NOT; MAJOR WOODWARD AND I DISCOVERED IT OURSELVES IN THE FIRST INSTANCE. DO YOU CONCEIVE A LOCAL INSPECTOR OF A PRISON TO HAVE AN AUTHORITY TO PREVENT SUCH A VIOLATION OF THE LAW, IF HE SHOULD THINK FIT ?— I THINK HE HAS ; I CONSIDER THE COURT OF KING'S BENCH WOULD SUPPORT HIM, IF HIS ORDERS WERE DISOBEYED IN SUCH A CASE. THERE IS A GENERAL RECOMMENDATION, A STATEMENT IN YOUR REPORT WITH REGARD TO THE MEDICAL DEPARTMENT OF THE PRISONS OF DUBLIN ; CAN YOU STATE FROM RECOLLECTION WHAT THAT IS?— I KNOW THERE IS ONE, BUT I COULD NOT STATE FROM RECOLLECTION; I SHOULD BE GLAD TO HAVE MY MEMORY REFRESHED UPON IT BY SEEING THE REPORT. DO THE INSPECTORS- GENERAL OF PRISONS IN IRELAND, CONSIDER THE MEDICAL EXPENSES OF THE DUBLIN PRISONS AND THE MEDICAL ESTABLISHMENT, TO STAND IN NEED OF REFORM AND AMENDMENT?— WE CONSIDER THEM CAPABLE OF REFORM, OF AMENDMENT I WOULD RATHER SAY. DO YOU CONSIDER THE MEDICAL EXPENSES OF THE PRISONS OF THE CITY OF DUBLIN TO BE CAPABLE OF REDUCTION AND RETRENCHMENT ?— A CONSIDERABLE RETRENCHMENT I THINK. WITHOUT ANY SACRIFICE OF THE DUTY WHICH SOCIETY OWES TO THE INDIVIDUALS CONFINED IN THE PRISONS ?— ON THE CONTRARY, I THINK IT WOULD BE WITH BENEFIT TO THEM; BUT THIS IS A VIEW OF OUR'S, THAT WEMAY BE MISTAKEN IN. BUT IT IS YOUR VIEW, IN CONNECTION WITH THAT OF YOUR BROTHER OFFICER ?— CERTAINLY; WE HAVE CONSIDERED THE SUBJECT SERIOUSLY, AND HAVE CONSULTED OTHERS ON THE SUBJECT, WE HAVE GONE CONSIDERABLE LENGTHS IN IT; WE CONSULTED THE SURGEON- GENERAL, AND ALSO SOME OF THE POLICE MAGISTRATES OF DUBLIN, CONSCIOUS THAT IN SOME OF OUR VIEWS WE MIGHT BE ERRONEOUS AND FIND THEM DIFFICULT TO EXECUTE, AND AS WE STATED IN OUR REPORT, WE WILL BE PREPARED WHEN WE ARE CALLED TO PRODUCE A PLAN. 549- I i magistrates, Major James Palmer. ( 27 May.)