14S MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE djl". court of King's Bench, but know very little about the particular points to which they relate. What was the trial about, upon what grounds ?— The object I believe was, that they wanted to do away with the meters, so necessary for protecting the public ; there was also a trial at the court of conscience; and an action brought against the president of that court, in which the party did not proceed, and there was an order or judgment of the court against him with costs, in consequence of not pro- ceeding, for there was no ground to go upon. Mr. Allen, the clerk of the guild, has I believe given evidence before the Committee, as to the nature and particulars of the trial. Is not the meter supposed to live well on board, at the expense of the captain?— No; if he did, it would be my duty to report him to the committee, and he would be dismissed. There is a standing order on the guild books, that a meter shall not dine, nor take any compliment from the captain ; if he does, he must do it in a clandestine manner, and be subject to suspension or dismissal. If a complaint from any individual on the subject was made to me, I should immediately report it to the coal committee, who, as I before stated, are ready to hear and redress all complaints brought before them. Major James Palmer, called in; and Examined. WHERE do you reside ?— In Dublin. What is your official situation ?— Inspector general of the prisons in Ireland. As inspector general of the prisons, is it your duty to visit the prisons of the city of Dublin?— It is. Have you inspected those prisons ?— I have. Have you inspected those prisons alone, or in communication with another officer?— Generally in company with Major Woodward, who is also inspector general. You have presented a report to Parliament this session ?— I have. In that report, in as much of it as refers to the prisons of Dublin, is it your sepa- rate report, or the joint report of the two inspectors general ?— It is a joint report; we agreed it should be so, as we inspected together. The other parts of that report are taken singly, by each of the inspectors gene- ral ?— They are, the Lord Lieutenant having divided Ireland into two circuits, under the Act of Parliament. At what time were you appointed ?— At Christmas 1 821. Did you pay an early attention to the state of the prisons in Dublin?— Imme- diate, almost. Did you see anything in the state of Newgate which led you to make a represen- tation to the King's government in Ireland, with regard to a new classification of prisoners ?— We certainly saw much to find fault with ; but we did not make a re- presentation to government at once, considering it would take some time to inform ourselves as to the duty and necessary alterations. Then you proceeded deliberately on your introduction, before you came to a de- cision with regard to the measures of reform in those prisons?— We did, conscious of our own ignorance, in a great measure, at first, on many parts of our duty. What was the state of Newgate at the time when your official duties com- menced ?— It appeared to us in a very bad state of discipline, in a great measure arising from the nature of its structure, and want of accommodation for the occu- pation of prisoners. Did you consider it possible, that any prison, built like the prison of Newgate, that the provisions of the law can be carried into effect ?— The law could not, in all its provisions, be enforced; but we did consider, that much more could be done than was done; and in fact great improvement has taken place in the female department by the appointment of a matron, and in the general classification, by the Lord Lieutenant's proclamation under the late Act. Do you conceive, that, in any prison circumstanced like Newgate, a system of correct classification can be carried into effect ?— Certainly not to the extent which I should consider a perfect classification; but an improvement could be made, and is in progress. Is not the enactment of the law distinct and clear which specifies, that the crimi- nal and the debtor shall not, under any circumstances, be allowed to be placed in the same part of the prison ?— Quite so, I think. Was that provision of the law carried into effect in the prison of Newgate, or have you known any failing of it ?— It was not carried into effect in Newgate. In