12 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Mr self, immediately from the- treasurer of the grand jury and not through the in- Richard Purdy. spector r— I am not aware that such is the custom. v_——^ ' If that be case, is it possible that the inspector could mis- appropriate what did ( 30 April.) not come into his hands?— Certainly ; it is impossible. If you had made an inquiry from the grand jury treasurer, was it competent to you to have learnt that fact or not?— I found it extremely difficult to obtain any information, and several persons applied without success. Are you aware, that no sum is advanced by the grand jury, to any person; con- tractor or otherwise, until the contract is fulfilled ?— I have seen charges in the pre- sentment sheets, of various sums advanced to Mr. Gamble and others for ne- cessaries. Did you ever see a sum in any presentment advanced to any person on account of a contract?— I am not aware of any advance made on a contract; I have seen sums of money presented for Mr. Ricard to supply bread for Newgate for six months, commencing the late term, 700/. and to Mr. John Glennon, to supply milk, 200/. I have here a copy of one of the printed sheets; it is impossible for me to show whether any paymeuts have been made; but large sums have evidently been presented for the inspector and other officers to supply necessaries for the prisons. Is not the presentment sheet publicly printed in the city of Dublin?— It is; but that does not enable me to answer the question, whether advances have been made. Did you apply for information on the subject of the grand jury accounts ?— I applied at the office of the treasurer of the grand jury, and I also applied at the head police office. Alderman Darley was good enough to instruct the secretary to allow me to have access to the accounts at the police office; but from those accounts I could not obtain the information which the Committee require. In point of fact, you do not know of any sums being paid to contractors, on account of contracts ?— I do not. Do you know the forms that are observed before the amount of a contract is paid to any contractor ?— I do not. You see certain sums presented for in the presentment sheet, to be advanced to the inspector for particular purposes ; do you observe what they are for ?— I have stated what some of them are for. The question referred to monies advanced to inspectors of prisons; do you not find sums advanced to pay hatchmen in the prisons?— I have seen items entered in the presentment sheet as paid to the inspectors of the prisons for various purposes. There is a sum to pay hatchmen, and fifty pounds for incidents; are there any others?— I find two sums, one 684/. the other 600/. to supply necessaries, and I have no doubt there are many others. Do you happen to know the reason of that sum being presented to be advanced to pay hatchmen ?— I consider it is for salaries. Do you know the reason of that being advanced and no other being advanced ?— I do not. The sum which is there presented is not raised for some time afterwards ?— It is not. In the usual course how long after it is presented is it actually raised ?— A con- siderable time afterwards. Then in point of fact, though it is presented to be advanced, it cannot be paid till it is raised ?— No. Upon an average it is not three months before it is actually repaid?— I believe it may be. That is half the time before the next held grand jury ?— Yes. Then for those three months, the purposes for which that money is alleged to be advanced to the inspector, are obliged to be borne by the inspector without any advantage ?—' That is the natural conclusion. Then for three months out of the six, he is in advance out of his own pocket before he receives the money ?— According to the statements in the preceding questions, he may be in advance. 0 It is to pay hatchmen ?— One of the items is. Is not the object of it that they should be paid weekly ?— I imagine so. Then for the first three months he is in advance for their weekly allowances to them?— bo it would appear. You stated a supposed partnership between Mr. Mallett, who was the contractor for