SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. 111 c more wanted than anything else. There are many persons that are bankrupt M or insolvent that have 110 interest whatever, and they remain and vote at the elections. 3c 8070. To your knowledge, did any bankrupt or insolvent persons vote at the last election ?— About 12. 8071. You can state that they were bankrupt or insolvent?— Yes ; we took out their schedules from the Insolvent- office. 8072. You have actually seen the schedules of those persons ?— Yes. 8073. Did any of them take the oath of a continuing qualification ?— Direc- tions were given to the inspecting attornies in each booth to put the oath to those persons. 8074. Mr. M. J. O'Connell.'] Is not there great doubt whether a party can be punished for perjury under the existing oath of qualification ?— In cases in which I have seen it administered, I think it amounted to perjury. A person swore that he retained the qualification out of which he registered, and having parted with it entirely, I think it amounted to perjury. 8075. But supposing the case of a tenant, who underlet part of his holding, a 10/. leasehold for instance, but retained an interest of 10/. a year, and took the qualification oath, do you conceive that a jury would be likely to convict that man of perjury?— If he swore that he retained the full qualification out of which he registered, I would conceive him to be stating a falsehood; but I have known persons that have not retained sufficient in their possession, but have not retained more than an acre of land, or more than a house. 8076. Can any form of oath be put to a claimant except that specified by the schedule to the Reform Bill ?— No. 8077. Does not the form of the oath constitute the voter, illiterate as he may be, the sole judge of what his qualification is?— It puts it to his conscience, to his interpretation of his oath. 8078. And it may also to his judgment?— It may. 8079. Have you read the report of a trial at the last Downpatrick assizes, in which a voter was indicted for perjury, in swearing to a qualification of this kind, and was ably defended by Mr. Joy, upon the ground of the very uncer- tainty of the terms of the oath, and acquitted ?— No ; but I have seen the oath taken by persons whose title has been lost by the lives in the leases having been dead, and we prosecuted them, but the prosecutions were dropped. 8080. Chairman.] Those were the parties about whom you gave evidence upon a former day ?— Yes. 8081. Mr M. J. O'Connell.] Have you ever been present at an election in England ?— No. 8082. Have you ever known much time lost in getting the voters to repeat the oath in Ireland ?— I have. 8083. Are there any voters in Longford who do not speak English?— No, there are not, but there are some of them that are very old, and sometimes it is difficult to get them to repeat the oath after the deputy; he must commence it two or three times. 8084. Suppose the voter has been rather hospitably treated, and comes up in the afternoon of the day ?— I have seen a case of that kind when a voter was brought up by two persons, and the man had no idea what he was repeating at the time. 8085. In such a case may not an artful agent delay the poll a considerable time by requiring the oath to be put to voters, in consequence of the voters inability to follow the words quickly ?— Yes, but there is a regulation allowing a certain time for each vote; and if they occupy more than that time they, the deputy or sheriff, interfere. 8086. That is a regulation by consent of parties?— Yes. 8087. Mr. Curry.] Will you look at that paper and read it { a paper being shown to the Witness) ?—" Thomas Mulvey's farm. Expenditure: yearly rent, 12/.; expense of labour, price of seed, and other expenses connected with cultivating and cropping the farm, 7 1; interest of capital and stock employed and expended on the farm, 2 I.; county cess, 2 I.; tithe composition, 14 s. 6 d.; making a total of 23 I. 14 s. G d. Produce, two acres of oats, 1G /.; one acre of potatoes, 10 /.; value of butter and milk, 8 /.; making a total of 34 I; deduct rent and expen- diture, 23 I. 14 s. 6 d., leaves a balance of 10 /. 5 s. 6 d." That is what remains for his support. _ 643> 11 L 8088. That