July 1838. SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. 4,> 9 + v \ 5t45VMr- H° gg{} T! 16 reaf° n assi^ n for that vote being a bad one is, Richard Daly Esq that the house would only produce 3/. or 41. or 51. a year more than the rent q' the man pays ?— Because it is a house, which differs materially from land 15446. Is there no land with it?— No, it is a house in the town. 15447. Mr. Lefroy.] Do you think it would be worth 10/. a year to him - may he not estimate it as worth 10/. a year to himself ?— As he took the oath' I presume he did estimate it as such. 15448. What other criterion then was adopted by Mr. Gibson or yourself, but that the party esteemed it worth to himself 10/. a year over and above his rent > — The criterion is this, that when the produce of the land is taken into account^ and that produce is estimated with all its necessary deductions, then there is a standard of value by which the barrister may admit or reject the claimant. 15449. Chairman.] What is this individual's calling or profession ? He is an auctioneer. 15450. Mr. O'Connell Does he hold an auction upon the premises ?— He does not; it is a very small house. 15451. Mr. Lefroy.] If he has a family may not the housing of his family be to him worth 10 /. a year, just as much as the support of a man's family upon a farm may be worth 10/. a year to him?— Yes, but that is not the intrinsic value ; he pays 12 /. a year, and the house is not worth more than 15 /. 15452. Mr. Connell.] He pays 12/. a year for housing his family?— Yes. 15453. That is his rent ?— Yes. 15454. In order to give him a vote the house must be worth 22 /. a year ? — Yes, 10 /. a year over and above the rent. 15455. Mr. Lefroy.] What did he swear it was worth to him when he regis- tered ?— I have stated I was not present. 15456. How came you to know the value of the house so well ?— It is under my eye every day; I reside in the same town. 15457. Mr. Hogg.] Had he a lease?— Yes, otherwise he could not register. 15458. Do you know when that lease was granted ?— I do not. 15459. yon know whether it was 5, 10, 15, or 30 years ago ?— I should think it was not 30 years, for he has not been so long in the town. 15460. It may be 20 years ?— Yes. 15461. And the rent reserved 20 years ago was 12 /. ?— Yes. 15462. Mr. O'Connell. The older a house gets the worse it grows, I suppose ? — Certainly. 15463. And the older a lease of land is, the greater is its value ?— Yes. 15464. Mr. Curry.] You have not the same means of ascertaining the beneficial interest in a house, that you have in the case of land ?— Certainly not. 15465. Did you ever, in the course of your attendance at these sessions, know any case in which Mr. Gibson registered a claimant upon his swearing that he had a beneficial interest of 10 /. a year over and above the rent he paid merely ?— No, not that I know of; he always required a surplus of the produce. 15466. After deducting rent, the expense of labour, and tithes?— Yes, ma- nures, seed, and labour. 15467. Mr. Lefroy And labour ?— Yes. 15468. Charging the party with that ?— Yes ; the straw being set off against the labour where there was a large family of a helpless description, not capable of labouring, taking the support of that family as an ingredient in the cal- culation. 15469. Mr. Curry.] I11 fact, the support of that family was derived from the produce of that farm ?— Yes. 15470. And if the produce of the farm had not been applied to the support of the family, it would have been sold at a profit ?— Yes. 15471. Mr. Hogg.] I applied the question I put to you to Mr. Gibson only; now extend it to the other barristers, Mr. Cosgreave, Mr. Howley, and Mr. Lisle; can you give any instance in which the evidence produced by tne opposing party influenced either of these gentlemen to reject a claimant who swore to his own value ?— I do ; I can adduce two instances mwhich the evi- dence adduced by the opposing party had an effect with Mr. Howley and r, 43. 3 H 4 1 consiaeiea