353 M I N U T E S OF E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E T I IE John Julian, EM], 14814. And in those cases no value was set upon that labour r— No value was set upon that labour. 11 July 183^ 14815. Mr. O'Connell.'] Did Mr. Gibson go into the detail himself of the cal- culation in delivering judgment, or merely direct the person to be registered; was he in the habit of pronouncing any detailed judgment ?— Not in cases where the objection was as to value ; where the objection was as to questions of law he frequently gave a detailed judgment, stating his reasons for coming to the judgment he arrived at. 14816. He did not deliver judgments specifying the debtor and creditor items of the value which he conceived to constitute the case of the applicant ?— It cer- tainly was not his practice. 14817. He might have done it without your recollecting it ?— He might have done it, but only in one or two isolated cases, without my recollecting it. 14818. Mr. Lefroy.] By the Reform Act the claimant was bound to produce " in open court the deed, lease or instrument, if any, duly stamped, by virtue of which he shall claim a right to be registered, or shall by his own oath or otherwise, sufficiently account for the non- production thereof" ?— Those I be- lieve to be the words of the section. 14819. In cases in which the claimant produced the documents under which they claimed to be registered, what was Mr. Gibson's practice in respect to permitting the counsel or agent opposing the claim to see those instruments or documents ?— Fie never allowed the lease or instrument, under which the appli- cant claimed to register, to be shown to the agent or counsel opposing the claim; I mean to say unless the applicant wished himself to give it, a case which I never saw occur. 14820. Was he applied to to permit the documents generally to be seen by the opposite counsel or agent ?— He was applied to by me when the objection was first made, and subsequently applied to by Mr. Battersby, who argued the question at great length. 14821. He had systematically refused the opposite counsel or agent to see the documents ?— He always refused it. 14822. What opportunity had you and the opposite party of knowing either the contents of the instrument or ascertaining upon the face of it whether it was such an instrument as entitled the party to claim The general course was this; when an instrument was given in by the applicant to the assistant barrister, he was asked the nature of it, whether a lease, or what was the de- scription of the instrument; the assistant barrister was then asked by the counsel or agent opposing the claim ( he was always asked by me) what was the rent, what was the term, and what was the stamp ; he answered those ques- tions and any others which were put to him 011 the subject, and which were deemed material, he perusing,, at the time, the lease or other instrument. 14823. Then if he were asked to read the instrument at length, so as to let the opposite party hear the contents of the whole, would he have done so ?— Such a case never occurred, and it is quite clear where there were very many applicants to be inquired into at the registry, to oblige every lease to be read from beginning to end the court must have been adjourned from day to day in 14824. Would it have been inconsistent with the principle of not letting the opposite party see the instrument, to have read it ?— I should say certainly not. 14825. Then, with respect to the legal effect or operation of the instrument, counsel had 110 opportunity of judging of it ?— No opportunity of judging of it; and I have been led to think that many bad effects have ensued from not allowing counsel or agents to peruse the instrument under which the claimant claimed to register; 1 recollect one case in which the claimant produced a lease in which the rent reserved exceeded 10?. of the late currency, but did not amount to 10/. of the present currency; the lease, I believe, was originallv dated in 1825 ; if it were dated in 1825, the stamp, which was 5. v., would have been too small; there was a change made in the word " five," and it was made " six;' which made the stamp sufficient; for then the rent purported to be British currency; the man was about to pass; I happened to hear of this sub- stitution being made in the lease, and I mentioned it to the assistant barrister, and requested his attention to the subject; he examined the lease minutely, and handed it to the counsel employed on behalf of the applicant; the counsel on behalf of the applicant and the assistant barrister had both an opportunity ; of