S E L E C T C O M M I T T E E O N F I C T I T I O U S V O T E S , I R E L A N D . 307L ? / 13444. It was a tranquil county at that time?— I think it was. T. Courtenay, Esq 13445. Free from outrage ?— Free from outrage. 13446. There did not exist a. spirit of enmity between the tenants and their 12 June l838- landlords at that period at all?— 1 think not. 13447- Are there not at the present time outrages perpetrated in that countv of a description quite inconsistent with the public peace ?— There are. 13448. What is the nature of the outrages committed there at present ?— Mur- ders are very common there now. 13449. Is it your judgment that those shocking transactions have been occa- sioned in any degree by the excitement that has been created by this addressing of the people and this speech- making ?— I think it must tend very much to it. 13450. Mr. O'Connell.] You said murders were common; how many murders have you heard of?— I have heard of two or three lately. 13451 • How many have you heard of within the last 12 months?— 1 have heard of two within three months. 13452- And many within the preceding nine?— I am not quite sure, but perhaps two more. 13453- Those murders you speak of occurred on the estate of Lord Lorton ?— Three murders have occurred there; two within, I think, three months. 13454. Were there any clearances of estates by Lord Lorton at that time, or shortly before it ?— Some tenants were purchased out. 13455. And cleared off?— They got money to go away. 13456. Did everybody get money that went away?— Everybody. 13457. How much each?—£. 5, 10/., 15/., and as high as 20/. 13458. Is it your opinion that they went voluntarily for that money ; had they the choice to stay or to go ?— I have their names to a paper admitting the impossi- bility of their being allowed to remain in consequence of the state of the population, and expressing themselves satisfied with the sums they received. 134,59. Had they the choice to go or to stay?— They were told that they must go, but that they would receive certain sums of money to take them to America or elsewhere. 13460. How many families have been cleared off Lord Lorton s estate within the last 18 months in that way?— I do not know of any within the last 18 months, except a small holding where a middle- man's tenants were cleared off. 13461. IIow many families?— I think there were three, but I had nothing to say to them ; the middle- man came in arrear of rent, and I brought an ejectment, and they were turned out by the sheriff. 13462. When was it that the preceding clearance took place ?— In 1835. 13463. Was there any clearance from 1835, except this of one middle- man's tenants ?— None. 13464. Did the two murders of Lord Lorton's tenants take place upon the lands that were cleared?— No. 13465. Had the persons who were murdered any connexion with the clearance? — The last man, Cathcart, was upon the estate for years. 13466. Had they any connexion with the process of turning them out, or with the land that was cleared ?— One of them lived upon the land from which the paupers were put. 13467. Had he any connexion with the clearing?— He had not. 13468. Had he resided there for any considerable time?— Since 1835. 13469. What is attributed as the infatuated excuse for murdering them ?— I do not know, unless his being a Protestant, and having got this farm; that may be the cause assigned. He was a very well- disposed man, a peaceable man, and the Roman- catholic neighbours about him seemed to like him. 13470. You attribute it to his getting the farm ?— That is the cause assigned by the people about there. 13471. Where was the other tenant of Lord Lorton's who was murdered ?— He lived upon the same estate, the Ballinamuck estate, about a mile and a half distant. 13472. Was that declaration genuine that appeared in the newspapers, that Lord Lorton would clear off' his Roman- catholic tenants till those murderers were discovered, or to that effect ?—' That was with reference to a murder that took place in the county of Sligo, not in reference to Longford. 13473. There was a proclamation of that kind?— I think so, with reference to the Sligo property. „ 643. RR2 13474. lou