V 3 0 6 M I N U T E S O F E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E T H E T. Courtenay. Esq. 12 June 1838. 13418. Have you any doubt, from what you know of that county, and from your experience of it as a land- agent there, that this conduct of the Roman- catholic clergy has been the cause of the schism and the ill- will that prevails now to a great extent between the tenants and their landlords ?— That certainly is my full con- viction. ... , 134: 9. And that the tendency of that is most mischievous to the tenants ?— I really think so. 13420. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.'] Was the tendency of those addresses which you heard delivered to create that evil, to set the tenantry against the landlords ?— Certainly. 13421. Mr. O'Connell.] Orangeism existed 111 the county before your acquaintance with it?— I think it did. 13422. And Orange processions continued afterwards ?— I never saw an Orange procession in the county. 13423. But you heard of them ?— I heard that there were such things. 13424. And people were sometimes shot on the days of those processions ?—< I heard so. 13425. You have stated that you yourself have never been an Orangeman ?— I have not. 13426. Therefore you cannot know, of your own knowledge, whether there is Orangeism or not ?— I cannot. 13427. But you have no doubt there are a great number of Orangemen in the county?— No doubt there were a great many Orangemen in the county. 13428. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] Do you mean to say that there are men in the county that have been Orangemen, or that there are still Orangemen in the county? — Men that have been Orangemen. 13429. You do not mean to imply that they are now Orangemen ?— I do not, so far as my knowledge goes. 13430. Mr. O'Connell.] But you have heard that the system still continues ?— From all that I have heard in the county of Longford, I am disposed to think that it has been given up in a great measure; I have spoken to a good many men that were Orangemen, and since the will of the late King and the Government was made known to them upon the subject, I think they have given it up in a great measure. 13431. You did not hear of a meeting within the last 10 days in Dublin ?— I did not. 13432. I have. Mr. Lefroy.] You have heard of a Riband society, have not you ?— 13433. And it prevails in the county of Longford ?— Yes. 13434. Had you heard of any instances of the turning of Roman- catholics out as tenants, or any proceedings of the sort which have been spoken of, having taken place in the county before the violent excitement of the Roman- catholics against their landlords, produced by the interference of their clergy?— No, I did not hear of any instance, or any disposition on the part of the proprietors to get rid of Roman- catholics before the excitement, and the turning against them by the Roman- catholic tenants. 13435 » Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] You are well acquainted with the state of the county ?— I am. 13436. Mr. O'Connell.] How long have you been acquainted with it?— Since the year 1830. . J3437- Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] Are you well acquainted with its present con- dition?— I think 1 am. 13438. Are you frequently down in it?— I am. 13439- Are y° u professionally concerned, not only as the land agent of consider- able estates, but with reference to the registrations and the elections ?— I always attend the registration and the election. 13440. You know a good deal of the state of the temper of the people ?— I do. 13441. What is the state of the county at present; is it in a state of excite- ment or is it in a state of tranquillity ?— I am sorry to say that it is in as bad a state as any county in Ireland; from being so tranquil and peaceable a county, it has become about the worst. 13442. Have you known it a tranquil county?— I have. 3443. At what period would you pronounce it to have been a tranquil county ? - In 1830, 1831, and 1832. 13444. It