S E L E C T C O M M I T T E E O N F I C T I T I O U S V O T E S , I R E L A N D . 313 L ? / 13397. Are there any Roman- catholics upon it holding under old leases ?— Yes T. Courtenay E at a very high rent; and, upon reference to the leases, I find that the rent has been - L ' received for some years back at an abated rate; I think we take the rent from 12 June 1838. them now at something like one- half the rent specified in the leases. 13398. So that if Lord Lorton had had any wish to turn off those Roman- catho- lics, he could have done it with the greatest facility, by merely enforcing the rent reserved under their leases ?— He could ; the leases are what we call war'- rents. 13399- So that instead of using the power which he has under those leases, he has made an abatement of about one- half of those rents?— I think about one- half; there are more Roman- catholic rent- payers upon that estate at this moment than Protestants ; I found them upon it, and they still continue upon it; and I have taken the rent at an abated rent since I have been agent, and no Romrn- catholic has been turned from that estate, as far as I know ; certainly not since I com- menced the management of the property. 13400. Had you any reason to believe that any had been turned away before you took up the agency?— I never heard any such thing; but it is quite clear that it could not have been laid waste of Roman- catholics, where you find the majority of occupiers Roman- catholics. 13401. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.'] What may be the number of Roman- catholics who hold under war- leases, as you call them ?— I do not know the number, but they are considerable. 13402. Are they equal in number to the Protestants upon it?— I believe thev are more numerous. 13403. Do you speak of those Roman- catholics holding under what you call war- leases ?— Yes- 13404. That class is more numerous than the Protestants upon the estate at this moment ?— Yes. 13405. Mr. Lefroy.] Have you received any information from Lord Lorton respecting the condition of the estate before you were agent ?— Yes; Lord Lorton sent for me the other evening, and desired me to mention that were it not that he was obliged to leave town, he would have come down to the Committee to state himself that the facts put forward with regard to his having devastated this pro- perty, or whatever the term was, were totally incorrect; to give a flat contradic- tion to it; that he never directed such a thing to take place. I do not know how he came to hear of this evidence, but it was in consequence of having heard of it or read it, that he sent for me and stated so. 13406. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] Did you collect from him that, in point of fact, no such thing was done ?— That no such thing had ever occurred. 13407. Not only that he never caused it to be done, but that, in point of fact, it never was done ?— That, in point of fact, it never was done. 13408. Do you know the gentleman that gave this evidence, the Rev. Mr. M'Gaver ?— I do. 13409. Is he a very active partisan in the county of Longford in electioneering matters ?— He is very active. 13410. Did you hear him making any of those addresses that you spoke of having been made to the people ?— Yes ; he addressed them after the close of the registry very often in the evening. 13411. What was the tone of his addresses; was it mild?— I should say violent. 13412. Mr. O'Connell.] He did not praise the Conservatives ?— Indeed he did not. 13413. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] Did he persuade the people to be very temperate and mild in their demeanour?— No, rather the reverse, I should say; for he held Lord Forbes and Mr. Anthony Lefroy forth as tyrant bigots, and advised the people to come forward and register and get rid of them. I recollect opening the window one evening and hearing those words used. 13414. Where was he at the time?— He was addressing them from the opposite side of the street. 13415. Mr. Lefroy.] Those addresses were not merely to advise the people not to take bribes ?— No ; they were to advise the people to come forward and register for their country, and so forth. 13416. Did you hear the speeches made upon the occasions of the different elec- tions ?— Yes, I have heard speeches made at all the elections. 13417- To the same effect as those you speak of?— Yes. rr 13418- Have