V 276 M I N U T E S O F E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E T H E Thus. Courtenay, 12892. Possession was demanded on the day before or the day after?— Esil- I think so IO8QCJ Mr O'Connell Or on both days, probably ?— It might have been 8 June 1838. C X?' 0 on both. , , , ... T , , , 12804. By whom was it demanded, on whose behalf?— It was demanded on behalf of the landlord, Mr. Anthony Lefroy. 1289.). Who employed the person to demand possession ; was it your— I gave directions that possession should be demanded. 12896. Do you know who demanded it?— I think the bailiff of the estate. 12897. You have 110 doubt it was ?— I was not at home at that time, but I have no doubt it was done. 12898. Mr. Lefroy The tenants on that estate were assailed by threats and intimidations, and other vile measures, to induce them to vote against their landlord ?— They were; but perhaps I may be allowed to explain one of the reasons, which is, according to my own knowledge, why that covenant was in- troduced in these leases. I went upon the estate shortly after it was purchased, and I found upon it, like most estates in Ireland, a great many paupers. The supposition was, after Mr. Lefroy became the landlord, that the Roman- catholic tenants were to be all turned out. I went there with a surveyor and got the farms all surveyed, and got a line struck so as to leave each man, either that was to stay, or the new man that was to come in his place, a decent holding. One day, in the course of my proceeding to business there with the surveyor, I was called upon by the Roman- catholic priest of that parish, and he begged to speak to me. 12899. Mr. O'Connell] What was his name?— Mr. Daly, of Granard ; I went into one of tenant's houses with him, and he said, " Mr. Courtenay, you will excuse my coming here to interfere about the matter, but I think it right to do so, as Mr. Lefroy is a young proprietor in the county, and I have come to you, as his agent, to ask you if it is his determination to dispossess the Roman- catholics upon this townland." I said I did not know that that was the inten- tion as yet. " Well," said he, " I would recommend Mr. Lefroy not to do it; I have no antipathy to him, and you may tell him I will insure that these tenants, if he will give them leases, shall never be interfered with, and never be asked to go against his interests." I said, " Certainly, that is going all the length we can require, that they shall not be interfered with, for I am convinced if they are left, they will go with him, for he will be kind and indulgent to them." So that instead of requiring there shall be anything like a general turn- out, I went round the estate, looked to the comfort and respectability of the tenants, and I selected out of them 10 ; and though Mr. Lefroy had been opposed by the Roman- catholic interest in the county, I recommended him to make leases to those 10 tenants. 12900. Mr. O'Connell.] Are these 10 all Roman- catholics?— Every one there was not a Protestant in the whole townland, and some of the leases have fallen in since by the death of the tenants, and 110 change has been made; the widow has been left in possession at the same rent. 12901. Mr. Lefroy.] Has the same thing taken place on the other townlands as to which you have given evidence ?— Precisely, except as to my interview with a Roman- catholic priest. 12902. But with respect to leaving in Roman- catholics and not bringing in Protestants upon the estate ?— There is not a single Protestant upon that part with respect to which I was asked about the leases. Only two deaths had taken place, and the widow has been left in at the same rent, though in setting the farm, I desired the surveyor, who is a very experienced person, to give me a return of what he thought the land was worth, without reference to the registration, and in every instance I made an abatement from the rent he laid on to enable the tenants to register. On suggesting to Mr. Lefroy that these men should not lie disturbed in their holdings, I recommended some covenant should be shaped, in protection to them, that they could say, if wanted to be forced to poll against his interest, there was something or other which stood between them and their doing so. I believe it was in consequence of that suggestion that those covenants were introduced. i 12903. Then those covenants were introduced as a protection to the tenants, tnat they might have an excuse to those who pressed them to act against the wishes