\ 254 MINUTES OF E V I D E N C E T A K E N B E F O R E THE Rev. E. M'Gaver. 12801. Then one or the other is a correct statement of your opinion .'— Yes ; but I would say this, I would not consider myself, perhaps it would not be 1 June 1838. prudent to look'for that degree of perfection which is desirable all at once; it might be impracticable, it might be impossible, and we only judge from cir- cumstances which come before us. When men come forward we judge from what we know of them; if they come forward for the first time there may be something in their conduct or families which we approve or disapprove of, and we judge in that way of the qualification or disqualification of candidates ; and with regard to Mr. Lefroy, I may say the Roman- catholic clergy never acted for themselves, but they considered that the laity and the liberal Protestants would join them, and all agreed as to the fitness of the candidate coming before them. 12802. You have stated very strongly, you consider any interference by any person with an elector improper and unfair in the direction of his judgment ?— No, I did not say in the direction of his judgment. 12803. You have represented the freeholders of the county of Longford to be intelligent men; not only people who can read and write, but intelligent people who are competent to judge for themselves; is it your opinion that these freeholders ought to be left to the free exercise of their own judgment ?— Certainly, if they can exercise their judgment freely. 12804. In the abstract, is it right they should be left to the free exercise of their judgment ?— If they can exercise it. 12805. Is it or not right that the freeholders of the county of Longford, being such as you have represented them, should be left to the free exercise of their own judgment in the selection of their representatives ?— I believe they ought; that all parties should be left to themselves. 12806. It is only a matter of belief with you ?— I am certain of it. 12807. In your exhortations from the altar did you exhort people as to the moral and political propriety of exercising that political duty freely ?— I did. 12808. Or did you point out any one individual in preference to another in whose favour you exhorted them to vote ?— I did. 12809. Was that consistent with the principle you have just mentioned?— It was; and if it is not clear to the Committee I will show that it is consistent. If all threats were removed I should not interfere, but if there be threats on one side, the interference of me, as a clergyman, becomes necessary to counter- balance that threat. Where landlords will interfere, as they have done, and since their agents and drivers have used every means, and often in an under- hand way, every threat they were capable of, then my interference is necessary to prevent the tenants being ordered or driven by threats out of the way they would naturally go of themselves. I say if the threats of the landlord be removed the interference of the clergy is unnecessary. 12810. You then did what you admit in the abstract to be wrong, under the assumption that those you were addressing had been influenced by acts that were equally improper with your own ?— I do not consider by that I admit it was wrong; I have given my explanation of it; my interference would be un- called for, and would not be exercised were it not that I see the undue influence of the landlord, or persons connected with him, over the voters. Whenever I see^ that, I think it my duty to interpose and show them their moral obligations, which ought to weigh with them more than any sinister motive, or worldly con- sideration. 12811. Then can you state to me, as a matter of your own knowledge and belief, that every individual you were addressing had, to your knowledge and belief, been assailed by some such influence as you are alluding to ?— No, I do not believe all had, but I believe on some occasions a great many are. 12812. Chairman.'] On the last occasion of your addressing these exhorta- tions to your parishioners, how many do you believe to have been influenced in a contrary direction previous to that exhortation ?— I know of four, or five, or six, or thereabouts. 12813. How many were then present at the time you made the exhortation ? — I do not know whether they were all; most likely they were ; I did not con- sider whether they were or not generally, or whether it was my chapel they came to. 12814. What number does your flock consist of ?—- I did not take a census since I came to the parish. 12815. Generally?—