\ 2 5 4 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE Rev. E. M'Gaver. of no effect; and Mr. Hamilton, when he went into the north, told them to give up peaceable possession; that he would come upon the lands and see 1 June 1838. them, and pay them for their improvements; they took his advice, and were greatly pleased with it, but he never kept his promise, he never came; I there- fore considered it was useless complaining of the driver, as long as those who employed him were deaf to any supplication that was made. In the case of Dennis Farrell of Lough, several memorials had been forwarded in his behalf; he took land under the late Lord Newcomen; Mr. was his agent; he expected to get a lease ; he improved it; built upon it; and he could not get a lease until after Lady Ross purchased it. 12568. Chairman.] How long ago was this last transaction?— All occurred about the same time, about 1832 or 1833. 12569. When did Lady Ross buy this property?— I cannot recollect the date, but her purchase is in the recollection of many. 12570. You stated this was done by Lord Newcomen ?— I stated that occurred within my own knowledge; as to the date, it was shortly before she purchased the land; I cannot say how many months it was. 12571. 1 want to know how many months or years ago it was that Lady Ross purchased Lord Newcomen's property?— It was about 1832 or 1833. 12572. Now, you do not think it allowable for a landlord or a landlady in Ireland ever to make any alterations in the tenancy of his 01* her estate ?— Indeed I do ; but wherever it appears such alteration is done through political or religious motives, it always creates bad blood and bad feeling. i 2573. But you assume the motive as a fact, and ground an argument upon the motive ?— I do not assume the motive unless I get facts to bear me out in my conclusion. 12574. Now, what facts have you to bear you out in this instance beyond the story which was brought to you by other parties, and which you allow to be contradicted by the conduct of Mr. Robinson, to show that those were the motives which influenced Lady Ross to change her tenantry ?— Because when new tenants were brought into the land of which the Catholic tenants had been dispossessed, they were exclusively Protestants, and the leases made to Pro- testants exclusively. 12575. There was 110 instance of a Roman- catholic having a lease renewed by Lady Ross or her agent ?— Not since that time. 12576. You are not aware of any instance in which a lease has been renewed to a Roman- catliolic tenant upon that property r— I do not recollect any one. 12577. But you have already on a former day stated that the tenants who were dispossessed were not the immediate tenants of Lady Ross, but were sub- tenants of some middle- men ?— Yes, where the 42 families were dispossessed. 12578. Then you think it is impossible the well- being of the estate, as a matter of money, can be improved by removing the old tenants and substituting others, without reference to political considerations ?— I think they could not be in that instance, because the tenants who were dispossessed were intelligent farmers, and better than those put in. 12579. They were richer men?— Yes, they were richer men, and better instructed in farming than those who came in; with the exception of two, they were superior to all the others that came in. 12580. Will you give us those two exceptions ?— There was one of the name of Wilson; I do not know him for his intelligence or industry, but I know he ought to be so, from the stock he came from; he came from a place called Meeting- house, in the neighbourhood of Longford; his father was a good farmer, and I judge from that he ought to be an industrious man. 12581. Who is the other?— The other is Mr. Moffatt; whether he is so or not, 1 do not know. . 12582. Now, you mean to say, that with those two exceptions, the Protestant tenants who were introduced by Lady Ross, within the last seven years, were inferior in industry as farmers, and in the possession of capital, to the Roman- catholics who were dispossessed ?— They were inferior to the Catholics gene- rally^ when a townland contains so many, some must be paupers, but it contained more that were superior in wealth to those that came in. 12583- Then you would have no objection if it were only those poor tenants who had been dispossessed; your objection is to turning them out indiscri- minately ?—