\ 254 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE Rev. E. M'Gaver. total number of persons being 23. I shall be able to state the sums given to the tenants of Lord Lorton, Mr. Lefroy, and the remainder of Lady Ross's, on Friday 29 May 1838. morning. 12415. Chairman.] Were you rightly understood to say that you had no appre- hension of bribery, before the Reform Bill passed, amongst the voters?— I think we must have apprehensions at the time of elections. It was at that time we became generally active; but at all times we might calculate upon temptation being thrown in the way of the poor people. 12416. But the first great activity was in the election of 1833?— That was at the time we became generally active. 12417. Lord Forbes himself was a strong advocate for the Roman- catholic claims?— He voted for Catholic emancipation ; but for any other relief he ever gave to the Catholics, I never knew of it. 12418. He voted for Catholic emancipation?— He did; but as for any other good he ever did for the Catholics, and to the country, we never had an instance of it. 12419. Was he one of those parties that always established Protestant tenants in the room of Roman- catholics?— No; I never knew that he interfered with them on account of their religion. 12420. Do you mean to say that he was or was not inclined to be a good land- lord ?— I believe he was always considered a good landlord, and that he never made a distinction with reference to their creed; till 1832 or 1833 I do not think the exclusion of Catholics was so general. 12421. Before 1832 or 1833 the getting rid of Roman- catholic tenants was not a common thing ?— Not so general as it is now. 12422. But still you say, that 25 years ago, that one townland, namely, that of Edgeworth's Town, was laid waste?— Yes. 12423. Mr. O'Conncll.'] Before the Reform Act, in general the county of Long- ford was represented by the same individual?— It was. 12424. It was considered a kind of close borough with two or three families ?— Yes. 12425. The popular interest had little or 110 influence?— No influence. 12426. Orangemen were very active in the county of Longford?— Exceedingly so. 12427. They used to go out in processions insulting the Catholics?— Not only insulting them, but shooting them. 12428. It was a very Orange county?— Yes. 12429. Are not a greater number of the lower order of people in the county of Longford Orangemen ?— I am informed that all of the lower order of people in Longford are Orangemen, except those who join with us, who are very few. 12430. And most of the Protestant gentry ?— We believe that all the Protestant gentry are Orangemen, except Sir George Featherstone. 12431. The lodges were openly held there?— Yes, up to the present day; at the last 12th of July they attended a meeting in my parish, and had colours, and the police came to take them down, and they took them down by force; after the police went away they put them up again; and I understand they have dinners now ; they do not call them Orange meetings, but they go under another name. 12432. Do you know what name they give them now?— I do not know exactly what name ; they generally wish to conceal it. 12433. Had that Orange feeling and that Orange animosity existed before 1832 ? — Yes, at all times. 12434. The Reform Bill was that which first gave you the idea of returning Liberal members?— Exactly, when we saw a possibility of it, we thought it neces- sary to exert ourselves. 12435. The anti- liberal party is very strong ?— Yes. 12436. The Catholic voters, is it your opinion that they would vote in the way that they do at present if they were left quite to themselves, uninfluenced by either priest or landlord?— I think they would vote on the Liberal side if they were left quite free, without the influence of either priest or landlord. 12437. Have you any doubt of it?— Not the slightest doubt. I know an in- stance at the last election where men knew that they would be persecuted by their landlords, and they said they would wish to carry a good face before the landlord ; and they said to me that it I would take the blame of taking them to my house the night before the election, and say that I took them by force, they would come and vote