\ 254 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE Rev. E. M'Gaver. to give his name ; but I heard that he had declared so ; I know that he acted in that manner; and I know a Catholic now living upon the land that was put out of 29 May 1838. Mr. Jessop's land, and he put a Protestant upon it. 12127. In what case did you know that he acted in this manner?— First with regard to this townland that I mention, Lisnana. " 12128. How do you know it?— I know it of my own knowledge, inasmuch as there were persons living on the land that I heard were making application to get the land ; they were refused the land, and were afterwards turned out: Protestants were put in their place. 12129. How do you know that Mr. Moffat turned them out because they were Roman- catholics ?— I know from the report of that individual family that had been turned out, and from what I might call the gossip in the county. 12130. And you think that is foundation enough for you to say that you know that Mr. Moffat turned out the men because they were Roman- catholics ?— I say that under such circumstances I would consider it a safe criterion to go by. 12131. Mr. O'Connell.] You know that, in point of fact, the Catholics were turned out and Protestants substituted ?— Yes. 12132. There is no doubt of that fact ?— There is no doubt of that fact. 12133. Then it might have been this, that, without knowing them to be Catholics, he turned all the Catholics out?— Yes. 12134. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] Although he might turn Roman- catholics out, does it therefore necessarily follow that they were turned out because they were Roman- catholics ?— It does not necessarily follow, but it turns out to be the fact. 12135. It turns out to be the fact that they were turned out; but how does it turn out to be the fact that they were turned out because they were Roman- catholics?— Protestants are there now in the place of the Catholics that were turned out. 12136. Then you have no other ground for making that assertion than what you have now stated ?— No other. 12137. Mr. O'Connell.] Do not you think that quite sufficient?— Yes. 12138. Chairman.] What has become of the Protestant tenants that were intro- duced and succeeded those Roman- catholic tenants?— Thev are living there. J o 12139. Have you ever known any instance of any Protestant tenant giving up his farm ?— Yes, I do ; in the parish I now have. 12140. Was there any gossip about the reason of their giving it up?— Insol- vency. 12141. No other?— No other. 12142. There never was any other reason alleged in your hearing for their giving up those tenancies ?— No. 12143. Or anywhere else in that district?— In my district I do not know an v. In the parish of Cashel, where 42 Catholic families had been turned out, Protestants got the land, and they are possessing it, and I am aware that the slightest injury they never received. 12144. When were the 42 families turned out?— That was in 1833. 12145. And no injury has ever been received by the Protestants who succeeded them ?— No ; if there was any injury it was to the Catholics; but I know one that got his corn put in the land, and he got the land ploughed gratis by persons living upon the same land who had 110 leases, and they feared to be turned out; and he sent to them with a threat, that if they would not be civil to him they would be dis- possessed. The unfortunate people gave him seed and ploughed" his land, and attended him in helping to build his house, and he sent fowl to their land, and fed them upon the poor people ; he even sent a man about collecting potatoes, and gathered potatoes from the poor people ; and what is more, some of those persons, under the expectation of getting some of the land, went and gave bacon and other presents to the magistrate in the neighbourhood, that he might use his influence with Mr. Robinson, the agent, to get land; and after expending all that, I know one of them has been turned out. 12146. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] You know that of your own knowledge ?— I live in the parish, and they lodge their complaints with me; the people themselves told me this. 12147. Mr. O'Connell.] After all this expenditure and bounty of theirs did they get the land?— Some of them never got the land ; some of them went to America ; some of them are scattered about. 12148. Did