7 % / - SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. 231 country is that they were turned out, not because of non- payment of rent, but be- Rev. E. M'Gaver. cause they were Catholics. — 12100. Do you remember the circumstance occurring?— Yes. 29 May 1838. 12101. Were they turned out by ejectment?— I cannot state that; I was then a schoolboy. 12102. But whether they were turned out by means of an ejectment or not, you nevertheless say that they were not turned out for non- payment of rent, but because they were Roman- catholics ?— Yes ; I give that answer from the general conviction of the people in the country, and from what I have learned. 12103. you attend the assizes at that time ?— No, I did not. 12104. You do not know whether there were any ejectments brought or tried at the assizes to recover these lands ?— I do not. 12105. Y° u know nothing but what you say is the rumour of the country?— I know the fact that they were turned out, and I have the rumour of the country as to the cause of their being turned out. 12106. You think the rumour of the country is always true?— That depends upon the nature of the case ; in such a serious case as that, as to the ejectment of tenants, it is generally true. 12107. When you say the rumour of the country, you mean among the Roman- catholics in that part of the country ?— Yes, and Protestants too. 12108. Do you mean to say that you heard from Protestants that those tenants were turned out, because they were Roman- catholics ?— I did not hear it from Protestants. 12109. The persons you heard it from were Roman- catholics?— Yes. 12110. Do you think that your hearing from persons of the Roman- catholic persuasion that a Protestant landlord had turned out Roman- catholic tenants be- cause they were Roman- catholics, is a satisfactory and safe ground for you to venture to assert that that was the cause ?— It is so, inasmuch as they had no object in leading me astray; we have it by tradition, and it is a way of handing down many facts that we have not any other opportunity of knowing. 12111. You have it by tradition?— That mode of tradition by which things are handed down to the next generation. 12112. Do you think that it is safe to act upon rumours of that kind in the county, imputing those motives to another person for the conduct he has pursued ? — With regard to this case, and with regard to the conduct of this Mr. Moffat, there was no doubt of it, he never concealed his opinions. 12113. Mr. Moffat proclaimed that he turned them out because they were Roman- catholics ?— He often mentioned it. Even at the present day it is men- tioned by persons who succeeded him. 12114. Mr. Moffat often mentioned that he turned out those tenants because they were Roman- catholics?— Not those individuals. 12115. What individuals ?— In the townland that I alluded to. 12116. Do you mean to say with regard to this townland that Mr. Moffat said that he had turned those persons out because they were Roman- catholics ?— I am not going to say what he said in this individual case. 12117. You were understood to say, that Mr. Moffat often said that he turned them out because they were Roman- catholics ?— He often declared his intention with regard to Catholics generally. 12118. You were understood to say that he often declared his intention to turn out those persons because they were Roman- catholics ; is that so ?— With regard to those persons I do not say, but with regard to Catholics in general. 12119. When was it he made this declaration with regard to Roman- catholics in general ?— At the time of his existing as the land agent. 12120. When was that?— I do not know the time of his death, but I know he was agent then. 12121. Then he is dead ?— Yes. 12122. Did he ever say that to you?— I never spoke to the man. 12123. Did he ever say it in your hearing?— Never. 12124. Who told you that he ever said it to them?— I heard it from many. 12125. From whom ?— I cannot now recollect, but I am positive that I heard it from many. 12126. Can you name any person who heard Mr. Moffat say that he turned Roman- catholics out because they were Roman- catholics?— I might name one person, but I cannot be certain as to the person, and therefore I would be sorry 643. G G 4 to