\ 254 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE E W Gaver i1999- Did you ever hear that this Ribbon society had any political object ? ' ' No ; on the contrary, I think those who are of that party are adverse to the May 1838. liberal policy of the country. They do us much more harm than good. 12000. I am not asking whether their object is good, bad, or indifferent, but I ask whether you have never heard that the association was of a political character ? No, I do not know that I heard it, but I always looked at it as hostile to the liberal interests of the country; the father of one of these men opposed us at the election, and the uncle of another would not register for us. 12001. You never did hear that the Ribbon conspiracy had any political object ?— I do not know that I did, nor do I believe that it had any political object. 12002. Mr. M. J. O'Connell.] Did that man you spoke ol vote lor the Con- servative candidates at the last election ?— At the two last elections; the father voted for us at one of the last elections, and the uncle of one of them did not register, and would not register for us. 1 2003. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] The father voted against you ?— No ; that man was a freeholder, he would not register for us, and his children belonged to that illegal society. 12004. Mr. M. ' J. O'Connell.] The father himself did not belong to that illegal society ?— Not to my knowledge. 12005. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] You said the father of one of these men had voted for the other party ?— Yes, the father of one of them did vote in the Tory interest. 12006. And he was a Ribbonman, was he ?— His children were; he was not, to my knowledge. 12007. Chairman.'] Is it your belief that at this time these societies are put an en£ l to ?— Indeed I should think there are some reprobate characters who belong to them yet; but I do believe it is not carried to any dangerous extent. I mean to say, that some of those who did belong to them are not made such converts of that I would have any implicit faith in them, that they would never belong to them again. There may be such. 1 2008. Mr. Sergeant Jackson.] I think you said the Roman- catholic bishop, Dr. Higgins, deprived the clergy of the power of absolution in these cases?— He did not give them jurisdiction in these cases. 12009. Did he make a general rule of that kind, that the clergy should not absolve in such cases ?— He did ; he made it what we call a reserved case, reserved either to himself or his vicar- general, or some other person appointed by him. 12010. And did he promulgate that amongst the clergy of his diocese ?— Yes, in the printed regulations of our diocese we have it. 12011. When did he do that?— I think it is four or five years back. He called a meeting of all his clergy together and made rules for the regulation of his clergy in the diocese, and among the reserved cases and other things that belonged to the clerical administration of his duties he included this as one of the reserved cases. 12012. At that time then, I suppose this Ribbon conspiracy was very exten- sively at work: you had reason to believe so ?— I believe, as long as I can remem- ber, before I became a clergyman, I heard of its going on. 12013. How long have you been a clergyman?— In 1822 or 1823, I think, I was ordained. 12014. You were ordained very early in life then?— I was ordained then. 12015. What age were you then?— I do not exactly recollect; I should be beyond 24. 12016. Four or five years ago, at the time when the bishop issued this general order, it was considered, I suppose, that the society was very extensive and for- midable ?— I could not exactly know whether it was more extensive than it had been. 12017. Then what made the bishop intervene in this way ?— I am not certain, it might have been so. 12018. Mr. M. J. O'Connell.] How long has Dr. Higgins been Bishop of Ardagh?— In 1828 or 1829 I think it was. 12019. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] Has he repeated this order ever since?— It was not necessary to repeat the order, because we have it in the printed rules, but he from time to time has made inquiries; if he would hear of any disturbances in any