\ 254 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE Rev. E. M'Gaver. invitation I gave forth to the parishioners to report those things to me. I said, bv way of encouraging them, if you have the courage to come forward and 25 May 1838. prosecute these men you will do a noble act, but if you have not, and will give me notice of it, you may consider that it will give me the means of putting a stop to it. In consequence of that notice, one of my parishioners brought me a copy of a ticket or certificate ; he gave it to me in writing, but it was an unintelligible thing. What was the object of it I do not know; it might be intelligible to them ; but by that means I put a stop to it. 11919. Was it a sort of renewal of the certificate that they belonged to the society ? Yes; he said he considered that whoever had not such a certificate did not belong to it. 11920. One of your parishioners brought it to you ?— Yes. 11921. Did you do anything further?— I got five or six, and I spoke of ifc publicly after that. I did not mention any names, but I said, if I was in possession of the facts of what was going on, I should feel no delicacy if they did not give it up, in using every means in my power to have them prosecuted according to the laws of the country. I saw two or three of these men I knew; they came into a field where I was, and I sent a messenger to one of their party, to tell him to go out, of the field, as 1 knew them. They afterwards came to me, and asked me to forgive them ; I would not take them, but sent them to the bishop, and they went and pledged themselves to Dr. Higgins that they would not belong to any such society, and Dr. Higgins told me to receive them, but to beware of them, as they were not to be trusted. 11922. To what party did they belong ?— They were what are called Ribbon- men, I believe ?— I do not know what their object was. 11923. In the other parishes in Longford, do you know that the Roman- catholic clergy have exerted themselves in the same way to put an end to these secret societies ?— I believe they have; they had instructions from the bishops to do so. 11924. In fact, then, I think by the exertions of the Roman- catholic priests, scarcely any mischief could take place, or secret mischief be hatched, without their having it in their power to prevent it in that way ?— On all occasions, as far as they can, they exert themselves against it; but there are some bad persons; I do not know what denomination to give them; they are reprobated by us, and by every honest man. It is quite clear we cannot make saints of all our men. 11925. But still, from the instance you gave of addressing your flock from the altar, it would seem as if that would lead to the discovery in general of secret offences ? You have reason to think, from the instance you have given us, that the effect of an address from the altar might lead to a discovery ?— I think it is the effect of such addresses from the altar that has prevented the increase of this illegal combination. 11926. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] Did you inquire as to the nature of the oath by which these persons were bound together ?— No ; one cannot count upon the nature of it; it must be something illegal, I take for granted, but the nature of the oath I do not know. 11927. Did you inquire of that person who brought you the certificate what the nature of the oath was ?— I do not recollect that I did ; but as far as I could learn in other cases, I was often endeavouring to find out the nature of the oath, and I never could get a satisfactory answer even from those who gave up belong- ing to such parties. 11928. You know these illegal societies are bound together by an oath of secresy ?— I believe some are. 11929. But generally speaking, as to this Ribbon confederacy, you are aware they are bound together by an oath — Yes; as far as I can learn, those who come in newly they would swear them, and those who are of long standing and leaders, they take their words; that is as far as I have leamt from inquiries. 11930. Chairman.] The statements you are now making is quite apart from your private information as a Roman- catholic priest ?— Yes ; I have inquired, as any other man in the country has done. 11931. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] I am not at all inquiring into any information m the nature of confession between you and your parishioners ?— No; I have got it from inquiry, as any of you gentlemen might inquire. 11932. You have stated with regard to those who were leaders in the body, their words were taken ?— I stated when they were known to be of long standing, acting"