Ay SELECT COMMITTEE ON FICTITIOUS VOTES, IRELAND. 105 8881*. Chairman.'] Do you mean to say that those parties had in fact held Mr. Patrick Flood. their lands at the same rent, or at a higher rent, previous to those new takes ?— — I could not say for myself that they did 110c pay a higher rent. 11 May 1838. 8882. Can you say that the rent they now pay is that which they have always paid within the last 15 years ?— I could not say before that period ; I was not living in the county. 8883. Do you know whether those parties of whom you have been speaking were or were not in arrear of their rent?— They were in arrear of rent in 1833, and they have paid up their rent since. 8884. You are aware that in all those cases those parties have paid up the rent since ?— In most cases 1 believe they have. 8885. Can you state why their rent was not paid up when it was so much in arrear ?— Major Thompson never asked anybody to pay up till there were more than two years due. 8886. Mr. Lefroy.] You say he ceased to be agent in 1830 ?— Yes. 8887. Chairman.] Why was an arrear of three years permitted after the agent was changed?— Mr. Kift did not press them when he came in as the new agent, till after the petition of 1833, and then he pressed them for the rent. 8888. Mr. O'Connell.] After they had voted?— Yes; he brought ejectments against them and they paid up. 8889. Chairman.] After the petition of 183.3 he forced them to pay their arrears ?— Yes. 8890. Mr. O'Connell.] To punish them for voting against his will ?— Cer- tainly; I think Mr. Kift did not interfere at the election. 8891. Mr. Serjeant Jackson.] You undertake to say that it was for the pur- pose of punishing them for their votes at the election that they were forced to pay their arrears of rent?— When they went in to pay rent, he said, " Why have not you paid the rent due? Did not you swear to a 10/. interest ? " 8892. Do you mean to say that it was for the purpose of punishing them for voting against his will that he made them pay the arrears?— I believe that if they had not voted, they would not have been pressed for the arrears. 8893. Do you mean to say that it was for the purpose of punishing them for voting against his will that he made them pay the arrears ?— From the manner in which the parties have acted since, I do. 8894. Chairman.] Explain why you say so ?— Because he has followed up the persecution to the very last, and put costs upon the parties, and threatened that if they would not vote he would punish them ; I mean Mr. Kift, the son ; the father has not come down lately ; but the son. 8895. Were you present in some instances where he threatened to persecute them?— I saw Major Thompson himself walk through the street, and come up where the freeholders were, and wanted to get into the house to take them off. He was at the election, very actively employed for the party. 8896. What did you see young Mr. Kift do at the election which authorises you to say that he persecuted those people ?— Lie wanted to get into the house, and Major Thompson would have forced those people off, but for the clergyman of the parish. 8897. In what respect does that confirm your statement as regards young Mr. Kift?— It was young Mr. Kift that did this; he wanted to get into the house to take away the freeholders. 8898. In what respect does this prove your statement, that he persecuted the tenants?— When he brought ejectments and would not give them time. 8899. Is his wishing to get into the house a proof that he persecuted the tenants, or can you state any other fact in confirmation of that opinion of yours ?— No, except his enforcing the rents up to that period. 8900. You think his forcing the parties to pay the rent they were in arrear, and which you say is so low in comparison with the real value, was a case of persecution?— I did not say low in comparison with the real value. I say they got a fair interest. 8901. Do you state that the tenants are, or are not, rented low ?— I say they are rented low. 8902. And therefore you think it is a case of persecution, when the tenants are rented low, to force them to pay their rents ?— I say that they were allowed to go two years in arrear before that. 643. J? 8903. Do